It was just pointing out how selectively applied this "but the experts could be wrong" argument is, seemingly based on nothing aside from whether or not their conclusions contradict far right dogma on the subject.
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SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors
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I guess it doesn't matter since they'll be accused of bias unless their answer agrees with far-right culture war messaging.
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BCP1928
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I don't know--you'd have to ask them.
No, you can't afford to answer my question, because in doing so you would have to concede the point that there are traits and behaviors you traditionally associate with 'men' or 'women' that are not directly attributable to their gonads, and that people are only trans with respect to those traditions.
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Pommer
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The South Carolina legislature passed an unnecessary law since no-one under 18 was getting the surgical procedures done anyway. (The law, though, also restricts “pre-surgical” medical care for these people for no good reason other than the South Carolina legislature doesn’t seem to like that happening.)
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
Not soccer so much. Wasn't big into team sports. I'm pretty sure I couldn't be forced into any sports.
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
Maybe you can answer this question for me and it would simplify things a little bit....
Do you think a trans person knows their gender identity better than anyone else?
This is often the explanation given to people regarding the reason why people should use preferred pronouns but I don't want to put words into anyone's mouth...
So I'm asking if you think a trans person knows their gender identity better than anyone else?
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BCP1928
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I think they know their own ideas and feelings better than anyone else. Whether those ideas and feelings constitute a gender identity depends on the categories they are being sorted into by others based on their preferred behaviors.
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
Great.
This is why they aren't required to get a diagnosis, or psychotherapy, or any sort of medical evaluation that might result in them not getting the hormones or puberty blockers they want.
This is why children are walking into gender clinics with their parents and walking out with prescriptions.
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Hmm, I think they know how they feel better than anyone else. A professional can ask the questions and give feedback. In the process, I honestly think that the best outcome would be if the therapist(s) and the patient come to the same conclusion. The therapist or specialist can begin to make a treatment plan that is acceptable to the patient.
I don't think either one should have the only say but I do know that there are some keywords or phrases that make it more likely to see the patient's intentions.
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
Why would they though?
Do you see the problem now? Professionals don't consider being "transgender" a medical disorder. As you said, a person claiming to be transgender knows better than anyone else what they're feeling....that's why all the doctor does is "affirm" the trans person's gender.
That's the Affirmative Care model...and because these trans activists all insist they knew they were like this as children, that's the same model used on children.
There's no years of psychotherapy or checklists....that could get the doctor in trouble. That could be interpreted as "trying to talk someone out of being transgender". That's against the standards of the Affirmative Care model.
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Everyone including doctors, therapists endocrinologist, lawyers, politicians, parents etc.who have been watching what's been going on in this field starting with WPATH. Please tell me WPATH isn't biased.
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BCP1928
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But, as I said, while they know their own thoughts and feelings better than anyone else, they don't know their gender identity without reference to anyone else. Thoughts and feelings may be innately known, but not gender identity. That comes from interaction with others. And so you jump directly to the treatments you don't approve of, which is OK--I don't approve of them either--but it is something of a non-sequitur.
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Actually, it was the "general public" who played a large role in getting the "doctors endorsing cigarette brands" squashed...as well as pressure from consumer advocacy groups directed at the surgeon general.
It's fine to defer to experts on certain things...however, that has to be counterbalanced that people can observe certain realities.
And certain topics are still quite subjective and prone to involuntary (and sometimes voluntary) biases.
Consider the spectrum of "Pulmonology <-> Dietetics / Nutrition Science"
Both are in the realm of medical science, yet, one is much more subjective than the other.
If a pulmonologist says "this is what's wrong with your lungs, and XYZ is the best approach for treating it", that carries more weight and a more authoritative "aura" than if a dietician with a PhD said "this is what's wrong with your diet, and here's what you should be eating"
You'd be hard pressed to find a pulmonologist that said "yeah, inhaling chemicals at factory is good for your lungs", they'd all pretty much be in agreement, and it's something that a non-educated person could concur with based on observations as well.
Yet, in the realm of dietetics, you can find every professional opinion ranging from vegan to paleo, each with several PhDs corroborating the theories....and its quite possible that a person can have a better experience with a diet that's not the one recommended by a particular dietician.
For this topic in particular, I'd suggest it falls on the spectrum much closer to the latter.
The idea of affirmation (and potentially starting process in early adolescence) could very end up being regarded as the "Food Pyramid" of the 2020's a few decades from now. Something for which there was a manufactured consensus of sorts (IE: "your funding gets stripped if you don't color in the lines"), that may have been well intentioned and trying to solve a real problem, but is found later to have some flaws that would indicate that they should've kept researching alternatives before trying to lock into one particular mindset.
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
What's the difference between thoughts and feelings and gender identity?
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Why is it that everytime we talk about transgender medicine and the finding of rhe systematic reviews rhat led to Europe ending affirmative care rhe left has to bring up single payer systems?
You might as well state that we think Europe's scientific response should mean we should also agree with its tax system.
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That might be the case if there weren't experts all over the world who disagree with you. And base their decisions on scientific systematic reviews instead of activist organizations.
It's pretty obvious who's arguments are based on nothing. Anyone who bases their arguments on biased activist organizations whos research has been found to be unscientific garbage, well I would say that's the group who's basing their opinions on nothing.
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Your the one that made the claim about behaviors and emotions. You still are dodging the previous questions. You You going to continue to ignore them and just toss out random thoughts when you haven't even substantiate your last ones.
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