Did you not just contradict yourself? Or am I misunderstanding you?
You might be misunderstanding me.
Are you saying Jesus did not condemn using titles which draw attention to a status of authority, and superiority?
I'm saying Jesus' point isn't that terms like "rabbi", "father", or "teacher" are inherently the problem. That's not Jesus' point. It's the desire for status, for attention, and superiority that's the problem.
If I refer to my physician as "Dr So and So" that's not a problem. Even though "doctor" is just Latin for "teacher". When someone has their doctorate degree and are styled "Doctor", calling them "Doctor" isn't a problem. As an example, when I refer to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr or Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Calling him "doctor" and "reverend" isn't in violation to what the Lord said.
Jesus isn't picking apart semantics. Jesus is saying, "Notice how the scribes and Pharisees, though they have authority and you should listen to what they say, do not act like they act, they're hypocrites, and they love to receive praise and fame and be treated with privilege" Jesus is pointing that out and then saying "It shall not be this way for you" Don't be like that, don't act like that. Don't hunger for glory and privilege and power. That is the context of "Call no one rabbi" and "Call no one father" and "Call no one teacher". It's not that "rabbi" is some kind of taboo word, it's that those who seek to be styled "rabbi" by the masses aren't in it for the right reasons, they are in it for attention, power, and privilege.
If we translate this situation to the situation of a pastor of a church, calling a pastor "Pastor" or calling them "Reverend" or calling them "Father" that's not the issue. The issue is if that pastor is in it for the power, for personal ambition, for privilege, for fame or recognition etc. It is not the one who seeks to be great that is great, but the one who seeks to be small; for the greatest is the slave. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles themselves will be exalted.
Christians are to be found in lowliness, and this is true also of those who have been granted the privilege of serving as shepherds of Christ's flock. If a pastor (priest, bishop, or whatever terms we want to apply to this concept of pastor or shepherd) is acting in such a way that they are in it for glory, rather than ministry and service, then they are in the wrong. It doesn't matter what they are
called. It matters how they
conduct themselves.
Bringing this back to Paul, when Paul styles himself a father (of the Corinthians, or of St. Timothy) Paul is not violating what Jesus said; nor is it a violation of what Jesus said if Timothy (as an example) viewed Paul as a spiritual father, and as a teacher. Because Paul's personal conduct is in keeping with what the Lord taught and said. Time and again Paul speaks of himself as a servant, that he is the "least of the apostles" that he is unfit to be called an apostle and is only an apostle by the grace of God. Paul knows that he is the "chief of sinners" and so doesn't parade around seeking fame, glory, and isn't interested in personal ambition. He is in the ministry to minister, he is an apostle because Jesus made him an apostle, Paul's work speaks for itself, and the authority by which he speaks is true, he is an apostle and thus is Christ's ambassador and representative from the authority and word of Jesus Christ Himself; but Paul does not glory or boast of himself, of his ability. He does not say, "Listen to me, for I am a Hebrew among Hebrews, a Pharisee among Pharisees, a doctor and scholar of the Torah extraordinaire'" Instead he actually says "I consider these things as dung for the sake of Christ".
Paul had the authority and he also practiced what he preached.
Because what Jesus was concerned with wasn't the semantics of "father" or "teacher" but the attitudes, mindset, the condition of the heart, the disposition of the heart.
Jesus said, "But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." Matthew 23:8, 9
We know what he meant by calling anyone on earth your father, because he did not condemn use of the term father, in their proper context.
Please see Matthew 3:9; Matthew 10:21, 36; Matthew 15:4-7; Matthew 19:5, 29.
So you agree that there are situations in which "father" is acceptable, right? It is okay to call Abraham our
father in the faith. Can I call, for example, St. Paul a
father in the faith?
And if my pastor, who bears the responsibility of raising up God's children in and with God's word, is a spiritual father to those of us in the congregation of which he has been tasked with serving and ministering to is called "father" why does this become wrong, when it is not wrong for Abraham or Paul to be a father?
If there can be proper uses of "father" in reference to people, then we should be concerned with the improper use of "father". Correct? Then it's not the use of the word "father" itself that is the problem, it's the
use and context of "father" that is relevant. Correct?
Agreed.
Notice you used the indefinite article "a" - "
Referring to someone as a teacher (or "rabbi") or father isn't the problem."
There is a reason you did that. Explain to us the reason please.
I did that because those are the rules of English grammar? I have a father, my biological father (had, I suppose, he ha since passed) I called him "Dad", he was my dad, my father. He was a father, because he was
a father
to me. He was my dad, my father.
Please elaborate a little further on why Jesus said not to be called 'Teacher' or 'Father'.
Hopefully I've successfully done that by now.
Thank you.
So, these fathers or teachers both inside and outside the faith, should expect and want persons to address them as 'Father' and 'Teacher'. Is that what you are saying?
If they are of that mindset then that's a problem. That's the attitude Jesus was speaking against. If my pastor threw a tantrum because I called him Gary instead of Pastor Gary then that's an immature and poor attitude, and might speak to his unfitness to be a pastor in the first place. Though, that's not a problem. When I say, "Pastor said..." or "Pastor's sermon this week..." I'm not sinning. Because he is a pastor, he's my pastor. But if my pastor was uptight about titles, then that's a bad attitude, it's an unChristian attitude to have, especially for someone bearing the responsibility of being a minister of God's word and shepherd of God's flock.
Thank you.
Should pastors be the only men in the congregation be considered spiritual fathers and teachers, or does this term apply to all the other mature men in the congregation who are experienced?
I have had lots of spiritual fathers (and mothers). Only some of them have been pastors. I have had many teachers, and only some of them have been pastors. Being ordained to the Sacred Office is not a prerequisite to being a teacher of the faith, or being a spiritual father or mother. But those who are ordained to the Sacred Office are, historically, teachers (because teaching is part of the vocation of pastor) and are a spiritual parent to the Faithful under their care.
I've never called my pastor "Father" and I've never referred to my pastor as "Father So and so". That's not standard practice for Lutherans in North America (mileage may differ in other parts of the world, I'm not entirely sure). We typically just say "Pastor".
Thank you.
Thank you.
Neither all the spiritual fathers who were not elders or "leaders". 1 Timothy 5:1, 2
Would you agree?
I don't understand the question in relation to the statement you are responding to. When you say "neither" neither what?
As it pertains to what St. Paul says to Timothy here, Paul is saying that we should treat older men as father (and, I'd add, older women as mothers). That's how things should operate in the Church--that we operate as a loving family.
Taking on titles that draw attention to ones status in the congregation does not demonstrate one as being a hypocrite, or puffed up?
Again, if someone sits there and says, "I expect you to call me this, this, and the other thing" then that'd be a huge red flag for me. I wouldn't be comfortable with a pastor who wanted to pile up praises, titles, etc; because a pastor's duty and obligation is to be a servant and minister. It is because they are servants that I respect them as a pastor, as a spiritual father, as a shepherd of the flock of Christ. They sit in the apostles' seat because of the ordination they have received from the Church, by their calling to Ministry; but it is an obligation upon them that they bear the weight of that responsibility with humility and lowliness.
If you don't think so, then please explain why Jesus, after stating The scribes and the Pharisees do all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ then went on to explicitly say, But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
You said context matters. Isn't the context surrounding the attitude applied to the titles?
The "titles" are to be in the context of the attitude Jesus is talking about.
Question: Do you imagine that most pastors go around saying "I expect you to call me 'Father'"? I mean, I definitely know of bad pastors out there (and usually they aren't being called "father" by anyone), but it hasn't been my experience that pastors go around doing this. Not the majority of them anyway.
-CryptoLutheran