WILTON CARDINAL GREGORY ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON D.C. CALLS OUT PRESIDENT BIDEN AS A CAFETERIA CATHOLIC!

Michie · Apr 1, 2024

CBS “Face the Nation” segment interviewing Cardinal Gregory and the female Anglican/Episcopal Bishop of Washington is excellent. I commend the reporter for the very good questions he asked especially about President Biden’s form of Catholicism.

Cardinal Gregory’s answers, while measured, were very good and he persisted even as the female Episcopal Bishop pushed back with a corrupt understanding of conscience and proclaimed her belief in a woman’s right to abortion as selfish healthcare for herself even as it murders a human baby in the womb!

That choice may be a decision of conscience but it is not a Christian conscience but one that is corrupted by world politics, or better yet, the world, the flesh and the devil.

While President Biden goes to Mass, as the reporter states, even saying Sunday Mass and Holy Days of Obligation, there is a disconnect between Biden’s private worship and his life’s politics. Politics and polls guide him more than Jesus Christ as he embraces not Catholicism in practice, but the world, the flesh and the devil.

This is over 13 minutes long but well worth the watch. Even the politically liberal female Episcopal Bishop of Washington offers some good insights at limited times.

While Catholicism is loosing members to the world, the flesh and the devil, it is not at the same rate as the Anglican Communion which has embraced all three with gusto with a veneer of “Protestantism and Catholic lite”.

Continued below.

WILTON CARDINAL GREGORY ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON D.C. CALLS OUT PRESIDENT BIDEN AS A CAFETERIA CATHOLIC!

CBS “ Face the Nation ” segment interviewing Cardinal Gregory and the female Anglican/Episcopal Bishop of Washington is excellent. I commen...

southernorderspage.blogspot.com

Michie · Apr 1, 2024

Cardinal Gregory: Biden ‘Picks and Chooses’ Parts of Catholic Faith

The cardinal made the remarks on Easter Sunday.

www.ncregister.com

WarriorAngel · Apr 1, 2024

Michie said:
That choice may be a decision of conscience but it is not a Christian conscience but one that is corrupted by world politics, or better yet, the world, the flesh and the devil.

While President Biden goes to Mass, as the reporter states, even saying Sunday Mass and Holy Days of Obligation, there is a disconnect between Biden’s private worship and his life’s politics. Politics and polls guide him more than Jesus Christ as he embraces not Catholicism in practice, but the world, the flesh and the devil.

... but it is not a Christian conscience but one that is corrupted by world politics..

Truth!!

RileyG · Apr 2, 2024

Good for him!

Cosmic Charlie · May 7, 2024

WarriorAngel said:
... but it is not a Christian conscience but one that is corrupted by world politics..

Truth!!

Hey WA, long time, no talk,

Anyway:

Just because Biden conscience doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean his is corrupted. He has a right to discern using his conscience and that's between him and God.

(That's not me talking, that's Catechism)

Michie · May 7, 2024

Cosmic Charlie said:
Hey WA, long time, no talk,

Anyway:

Just because Biden conscience doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean his is corrupted. He has a right to discern using his conscience and that's between him and God.

(That's not me talking, that's Catechism)

The Catechism speaks of a conscience formed by Church teaching.

RileyG · May 7, 2024

Michie said:
The Catechism speaks of a conscience formed by Church teaching.

Maybe Biden knows Church teaching and rejects it or maybe he's just confused and really doesn't know. I won't make this political or go into conspiracy theories about him having dementia or being senile. I really cannot pass judgment on him. Most Catholics, from my experience, don't even know their faith.

Cosmic Charlie · May 7, 2024

Michie said:
The Catechism speaks of a conscience formed by Church teaching.

Ok.

I just re-read Article 6 (para 1776-1802) and I don't see that anywhere.

Would you be kind enough to guide me where it says this ?

Because it doesn't say that in the section on Moral Conscience.

Michie · May 7, 2024

https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/faithful-citizenship/parishes-and-schools/upload/Conscience-Formation-bulletin-insert.pdf

3 »
Hide footnotes Hide cross-references
Part 3: Life in Christ (1691 - 2557)
Section 1: Man's Vocation — Life in the Spirit (1699 - 2051)
Chapter 1: The Dignity of the Human Person (1700 - 1876)
Article 6: Moral Conscience (1776 - 1802)
II. THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE ⇡
2039
(all)

1783

Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

1742
(all)

1784

The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

890
(all)

1785

In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord's Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.
55
54.

Cf. Ps 119:105.
55.

Cf. DH 14.

Search the Catechism

Cosmic Charlie · May 7, 2024

RileyG said:
Most Catholics, from my experience, don't even know their faith.

Hey Riles, I'm there with you.

Cosmic Charlie · May 7, 2024

Michie said:
In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord's Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.
55
54.

Ok, First, thank you.

Second, this isn't on point. Not to split hairs, but we are unfortunately in hair splitting territory.

Are we assisted in examination of conscience by the teaching of the Church, or is formation required to be guided by the Church? The interpretation of this paragraph makes a difference. And even if I were to stipulate that formation is required to be guided by the Church, I still maintain it's highly possible to come to different moral conclusions using Church guidance.

For instance, using Church guidance and I can come to the conclusion that abortion (for instance) is morally wrong in all cases but, at the same time, feel it is immoral for me to force this rather severe moral stance on others. Nowhere, to my knowledge, does the Church require me to work to make abortion illegal in all cases as a matter of general political policy in an open secular democracy.

Now, you can make claims and arguments that it is, like for instance, saying that unless I work actively to make abortion illegal in all cases I'm complicit in some way with committing abortion. I could claim, equally using Catholic Church theology as a guide, that you'd be wrong. Either case could effectively be argued.

My point is this:

The Catechism says I have a right to my conscience, you have a right to yours and Biden has a right to his. And just because they don't match, doesn't mean anyone is corrupt. We are simply coming to different conclusions. And none of us can morally enforce our conscience on anyone else. That's what it says. Everyone has a right to freely exercise their conscience.

And I'm really sick and tired of Catholics telling me my conscience is wrong because it doesn't agree with theirs.

Riles (sorry to drag this into this, buddy) above somewhere said something unreally true: Most Catholics don't understand their own religion.

I'm beginning to believe, in my old age, that a lot of priests and bishops fall into the category and it's having a seriously detrimental effect on the Church. You'd likely agree with me but from a different moral perspective - see how this works? How is it possible for both of use to come that moral conclusion without agreement in our conscience. Likehood is, we're both wrong. The more I become aware of, the less I am sure of.

Michie · May 7, 2024

Well I gave you the answer. This was taught all throughout RCIA. I stand by it and no, I’m not willing to split hairs on this one. What else would a well formed conscience be in a Catholic context? It makes sense.

Cosmic Charlie · May 8, 2024

Michie said:
Well I gave you the answer. This was taught all throughout RCIA. I stand by it and no, I’m not willing to split hairs on this one. What else would a well formed conscience be in a Catholic context? It makes sense.

I don't want to have this conversation with you either, at least on on a board where I'm limited on my opinions discussing this subject.

But I stand by my view that you can't enforce your conscience no anyone else regardless of whether or not you disagree with someone else's conscience.

Michie · May 8, 2024

Cosmic Charlie said:
I don't want to have this conversation with you either, at least on on a board where I'm limited on my opinions discussing this subject.

But I stand by my view that you can't enforce your conscience no anyone else regardless of whether or not you disagree with someone else's conscience.

Nobody is talking about forcing anything on anyone’s conscience. You are. The Church’s definition of a well formed conscience is what I posted from the ccc already. Either you agree or you don’t. Of course those outside the Church aren’t going to give two hoots.

CarlRenewed · May 8, 2024

Cosmic Charlie said:
I don't want to have this conversation with you either, at least on on a board where I'm limited on my opinions discussing this subject.

But I stand by my view that you can't enforce your conscience no anyone else regardless of whether or not you disagree with someone else's conscience.

My goodness, its you! I recognize your name and avatar! I just created a thread talking about how posts in this forum a few years ago led to my examining, and now finally joining the Catholic Church! Thank you!! I don't recall what you said, but I remember being very impressed by your faith, your knowledge, and your willingness to stick up for marginalized people and truth while others sought to pervert Christianity and Catholicism into a cruel club of ritualists instead of a cadre of believers, instead of giving until it hurts in service of God and their fellow man. Your posts and those of couple others really got me thinking, and I appreciate it. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your witness and your service! May God Bless you, and may you find solace in the knowledge that your efforts here are not in vein. I don't know how you find the patience, but without knowing it you've been a role model for me for around a decade.

Cosmic Charlie · May 8, 2024

While President Biden goes to Mass, as the reporter states, even saying Sunday Mass and Holy Days of Obligation, there is a disconnect between Biden’s private worship and his life’s politics. Politics and polls guide him more than Jesus Christ as he embraces not Catholicism in practice, but the world, the flesh and the devil.

I pulled this from your opening post. You're making some powerful statements about Biden Conscience here because you don't agree with it.

And there a more couple of people above who agree with this.

Biden has never, to anyone's knowledge, paid for an abortion, consoled anyone to have an abortion or had a partner that had one. He's on record saying he's against the practice. But, he won't force this morality on the society say whole. He doesn't say why.

There a people who claim Biden's conscience is malformed because of this stand. I don't agree. I think forcing my morality on a large secular population is immoral. I base this on Catholic teaching.

Hit me with your best shot.

Michie · May 8, 2024

Cosmic Charlie said:
I pulled this from your opening post. You're making some powerful statements about Biden Conscience here because you don't agree with it.

And there a more couple of people above who agree with this.

Biden has never, to anyone's knowledge, paid for an abortion, consoled anyone to have an abortion or had a partner that had one. He's on record saying he's against the practice. But, he won't force this morality on the society say whole. He doesn't say why.

There a people who claim Biden's conscience is malformed because of this stand. I don't agree. I think forcing my morality on a large secular population is immoral. I base this on Catholic teaching.

Hit me with your best shot.

I know how you and others like to play devil’s advocate. I think there is is more than enough evidence out there showing there are many that take issue with Biden’s version of Catholicism. Hit you with my best shot? Already did. The teachings of the Church. I have no desire to go through the old days of these circular arguments with you or your buddies back in the day. There is more than enough evidence out there from clergy and theologians you can research yourself that take issue with his representation of what is truly Catholic and what isn’t.

WarriorAngel · May 8, 2024

Cosmic Charlie said:
Hey WA, long time, no talk,

Anyway:

Just because Biden conscience doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean his is corrupted. He has a right to discern using his conscience and that's between him and God.

(That's not me talking, that's Catechism)

His CC.

A conscience means repentant and to fully desire to avoid near occasions of sin and to sin no more.
IE - ending abortion.

He says - sin. It's good.
So let me ask, is that repentant behavior and avoiding sin?

Well and then there's the fondling his 12 year old daughter - in the shower.
I don't think he sees that behavior as unacceptable.
IF he had a conscience, he would have never even went there...

So - are you agreeable he has a conscience?

WarriorAngel · May 8, 2024

Michie said:
The Catechism speaks of a conscience formed by Church teaching.

Truth.

FaithT · May 9, 2024

RileyG said:
Maybe Biden knows Church teaching and rejects it or maybe he's just confused and really doesn't know. I won't make this political or go into conspiracy theories about him having dementia or being senile. I really cannot pass judgment on him. Most Catholics, from my experience, don't even know their faith.

Yeah, when I was in Catholic grade school back In the 60’s and 70’s, my mom used to ask me what we were taught in Catechism. We weren’t taught Catechism. We had Religion class that didn’t teach much regarding Catholism. It’s no wonder people don’t know their Catholic Faith. I learned most of what I know over the past 18-20 years on my own.

WILTON CARDINAL GREGORY ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON D.C. CALLS OUT PRESIDENT BIDEN AS A CAFETERIA CATHOLIC!

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