Isaiah 65:17-19 relates to the eternal state not some supposed future millennium

Timtofly

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So let me gets this right when Jesus said in John 6 4 times concerning believers that he would raise them up on the last day he meant something eise right? Well I find that hard to believe so I'll believe jesus. I had enough with the circular arguments of various believeisms so I'll bow out
The Cross was the last day of the OT Covenant, or do you think the OT Covenant is still in effect until the last day on earth?

The OT redeemed were resurrected on the last Day of the OT Covenant.

Why would their Covenant be over, but then they have to wait until the NT Covenant is over. You all make no sense nonsense out of what Jesus did on the Cross.

You claim Jesus is the Life and the Resurrection happens in several thousands of years, or longer.
 
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hal4x

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The Cross was the last day of the OT Covenant, or do you think the OT Covenant is still in effect until the last day on earth?

The OT redeemed were resurrected on the last Day of the OT Covenant.

Why would their Covenant be over, but then they have to wait until the NT Covenant is over. You all make no sense nonsense out of what Jesus did on the Cross.

You claim Jesus is the Life and the Resurrection happens in several thousands of years, or longer.
Yes the OT ended when the temple was destroyed but if you think the resurrection happened there that's full preterism which is heresy
 
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Timtofly

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Yes the OT ended when the temple was destroyed but if you think the resurrection happened there that's full preterism which is heresy
Now you are just changing the topic, and not even talking about Scripture, but man's take on history.

The OT Covenant did not end in 70AD.

The last day OT resurrection was at the Cross, when God left the building. The Temple of Herod could still be there today, and still the OT Covenant would have ended at the Cross. The first century Jews destroying themselves had nothing to do with the OT Covenant ending at the Cross.

God never relied on physical buildings. Humans were given a tent to meet God in. God was longsuffering and allowed a more permanent building as that was the flesh wanting something more than what God wanted.

You are the one derailing the thread with excuses why you deny a resurrection happened for the OT redeemed.
 
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hal4x

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Now you are just changing the topic, and not even talking about Scripture, but man's take on history.

The OT Covenant did not end in 70AD.

The last day OT resurrection was at the Cross, when God left the building. The Temple of Herod could still be there today, and still the OT Covenant would have ended at the Cross. The first century Jews destroying themselves had nothing to do with the OT Covenant ending at the Cross.

God never relied on physical buildings. Humans were given a tent to meet God in. God was longsuffering and allowed a more permanent building as that was the flesh wanting something more than what God wanted.

You are the one derailing the thread with excuses why you deny a resurrection happened for the OT redeemed.
The OT became obsolete but was passing away the writer of hebrews said. It passed away aug 1 70 ad
 
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sovereigngrace

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Yes the OT ended when the temple was destroyed but if you think the resurrection happened there that's full preterism which is heresy

I do not agree. The old covenant came to an end at the cross, not in AD70. It was there that Jesus fully, effectively and eternally introduced the new covenant and removed the old. Granted, the old covenant apparatus was finally removed from view in AD70, just like a corpse is buried and removed from sight. Between death and burial does not indicate a human is still physically and practically alive or active.
 
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hal4x

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I do not agree. The old covenant came to an end at the cross, not in AD70. It was there that Jesus fully, effectively and eternally introduced the new covenant and removed the old. Granted, the old covenant apparatus was finally removed from view in AD70, just like a corpse is buried and removed from sight. Between death and burial does not indicate a human is still physically and practically alive or active.
As I said the NT came into effect actually when he rose but god gave israel 40 years to repent and in 70ad no more temple priesthood sacrifice as hebrews said OT was obsolete and passing away. Why use the phrase passing away unless it was dead yet. It died aug 1 70ad
 
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sovereigngrace

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As I said the NT came into effect actually when he rose but god gave israel 40 years to repent and in 70ad no more temple priesthood sacrifice as hebrews said OT was obsolete and passing away. Why use the phrase passing away unless it was dead yet. It died aug 1 70ad

I do not agree! The cross spelt the end of old covenant. The whole system became redundant. AD 70 was simply the fulfillment of the destruction Christ predicted would come on the nation, and proof their house had been left desolate.

When Jesus died on the cross, He instituted the new covenant which allowed the believer to access God directly. No longer would the bulk of God’s people be excluded from the presence of the Lord by a veil. No longer did they need an earthly priest to represent them before God. They were now free to approach Him personally by simple faith. Christ removed the partition between God and His people when He laid down His life for our sins. He became man’s final high priest.

The curtain between the believer and God was eternally torn apart. The separation was removed. Matthew 27:51 says, :“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.” This veil was representative of Christ’s physical body. It was torn apart in order to secure eternal redemption for God’s people. It is only through Jesus that we can approach God. The way to salvation can only be found in Jesus.

For what purpose would we need a third temple? Christ is the realization of the shadow, symbol, and type. He is the ultimate fulfillment. He is the eternal temple. Is He not enough? Is He not acceptable enough? Do you need something greater?

2 Corinthians 3:11:“For if that which is done away (katargeo or rendered entirely idle, useless) :was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.”

As Clement said in his Recognitions (Chapter 64): “For we have ascertained beyond doubt that God is much rather displeased with the sacrifices which you offer, the time of sacrifices having now passed away; and because ye will not acknowledge that the time for offering victims is now past, therefore the temple shall be destroyed.”

There cannot be 2 covenants ongoing at the one time. That is absurd! One terminated the other. There cannot be 2 competing priesthoods. One replaced the other.

The book of Hebrews destroys any notion of the continuation of the old covenant priests. It is quite inconceivable that this defunct priesthood would be needed after the commencement of God's true eternal priesthood. Hebrews 7:19 tells us: :“the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.” Christ owns the only priestly office that God recognises for all eternity. Hebrews 7:22 confirms, :“By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.” For he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises (Hebrews 8:6).

Remember, Hebrews was written in-between the cross and AD70!

We have entered into a new divine arrangement that supersedes the shadow, type and figure. Man has one true heavenly high priest and requires none other. For you to argue for two competing priesthood underlines the dangers of your teaching.

Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that Christians would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.[/u][/b]
 
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hal4x

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I do not agree! The cross spelt the end of old covenant. The whole system became redundant. AD 70 was simply the fulfillment of the destruction Christ predicted would come on the nation, and proof their house had been left desolate.

When Jesus died on the cross, He instituted the new covenant which allowed the believer to access God directly. No longer would the bulk of God’s people be excluded from the presence of the Lord by a veil. No longer did they need an earthly priest to represent them before God. They were now free to approach Him personally by simple faith. Christ removed the partition between God and His people when He laid down His life for our sins. He became man’s final high priest.

The curtain between the believer and God was eternally torn apart. The separation was removed. Matthew 27:51 says, :“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.” This veil was representative of Christ’s physical body. It was torn apart in order to secure eternal redemption for God’s people. It is only through Jesus that we can approach God. The way to salvation can only be found in Jesus.

For what purpose would we need a third temple? Christ is the realization of the shadow, symbol, and type. He is the ultimate fulfillment. He is the eternal temple. Is He not enough? Is He not acceptable enough? Do you need something greater?

2 Corinthians 3:11:“For if that which is done away (katargeo or rendered entirely idle, useless) :was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.”

As Clement said in his Recognitions (Chapter 64): “For we have ascertained beyond doubt that God is much rather displeased with the sacrifices which you offer, the time of sacrifices having now passed away; and because ye will not acknowledge that the time for offering victims is now past, therefore the temple shall be destroyed.”

There cannot be 2 covenants ongoing at the one time. That is absurd! One terminated the other. There cannot be 2 competing priesthoods. One replaced the other.

The book of Hebrews destroys any notion of the continuation of the old covenant priests. It is quite inconceivable that this defunct priesthood would be needed after the commencement of God's true eternal priesthood. Hebrews 7:19 tells us: :“the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.” Christ owns the only priestly office that God recognises for all eternity. Hebrews 7:22 confirms, :“By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.” For he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises (Hebrews 8:6).

Remember, Hebrews was written in-between the cross and AD70!

We have entered into a new divine arrangement that supersedes the shadow, type and figure. Man has one true heavenly high priest and requires none other. For you to argue for two competing priesthood underlines the dangers of your teaching.

Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that Christians would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.[/u][/b]
There must be a disconnect I said MT INAUGURATION at cross but the book of hebrews tells us it is obsolete but is passing away. The writer probably knew the end was coming for the temple and Jerusalem to pass away. Since book written before that hence the phrase passing away
 
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sovereigngrace

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There must be a disconnect I said MT INAUGURATION at cross but the book of hebrews tells us it is obsolete but is passing away. The writer probably knew the end was coming for the temple and Jerusalem to pass away. Since book written before that hence the phrase passing away

Please address what the texts above. The old covenant was finished at the cross, when the curtain ripped. it was rendered redundant. It was dead. All that they were waiting on was a decent outward visible burial in AD70.
 
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