I hate Repent of your sins to be Saved. it is a false gospel, lie from the pit of hell

TPop · Mar 12, 2024

A Devil's Advocate said:
There is a great deal of incorrect theology in Christianity because much of it is based on the idea that we are saved by getting our sins forgiven. So, of course, how we deal with sin becomes the primary focus of our salvation. Cockcrow is correct. We are not called to repent of our sin for salvation or to maintain our salvation. God himself either repented or didn't 39 times in scripture. To repent, as it is used by the writers, is to simply have a change of mind, as Cockcrow pointed out.

Our salvation is not found in getting our sins forgiven. All sin was forgiven over 2000yrs ago. Everyone from the cross forward has come into the world already forgiven of their sins. That is the good news of the Gospel. Every single one of us, regardless of where we are at in life, or what we have done, can freely approach God for salvation. In fact, it is only because our sin has already been forgiven that we can even approach God in the first place. We see throughout the old testament that without first cleansing yourself, you could not approach God. This was the main purpose of Christ's death upon the cross. Jesus, taking all the punishment for our sin, left us innocent of any sin in the sight of God. We have all been cleansed.

His resurrection, however, this is where we find our salvation.

Adam's sin brought spiritual death which was God's punishment for his sin. Because we were all in Adam, we all sinned and we all died (Rom 5:12). Spiritual death is what separates us from God not our sin. It is through our spirit that a relationship with God, who is spirit, is even possible. If our spirit is dead, then no relationship with God is possible. So, for God to make a relationship possible, he must first deal with the cause of spiritual death... that is, the penalty for sin. So, Christ pays that penalty by taking upon himself God's punishment for all sin. There is now no longer any punishment for sin to be handed out. Because there is no more punishment, there is no longer the possibility of spiritual death once you have received new life through belief in Jesus. The resurrected Jesus the living Jesus, not the Jesus who died.

So then, what are you repenting of when you have already been forgiven your sins?

Being told you must repent of your sins for, or to maintain, salvation is simply a misunderstanding of the gospel. To do so makes you into a liar or a deceiver. How so? Do you come to God in repentance with the intention of continuing to do what it is you are repenting of, that being sin? No, of course not! You come to him with the unspoken promise you wont do it again. But, you do! Again and again. "Oh, but it shows God my intention is not to sin!" Think so? Your intentions only matter before the act. After the act has been committed, your intentions become irrelevant. The act is done, and your intentions make no difference at this point. The truth is, nobody hates their sin more than they like it. If they did, they simply wouldn't do it. The sooner people are ready to be honest with themselves and admit this fact, the sooner God can really start making a difference in their lives.

You are called to repent of your unbelief. This is what keeps you separated from God, not your sins (John 16:8-9). If you do not believe, you remain spiritually dead. Forgiven, yes, but still dead. Any sin you commit makes no difference because you're already dead. Repentance after that is simply having a change of mind. Instead of committing adultery, maybe choose not to. If the change of mind is too hard to carry out, because the temptation is far too strong, then this is where we are called to lean on God's strength over our own. This doesn't happen over night, but our hope here is in the fact that God knows this far better than we know ourselves. And, his grace is always sufficient.

Excellently posted! Thank you!

Peace and Blessings

TPop · Mar 12, 2024

JulieB67 said:
I've stated myself in every post that we will always sin and always fall short So no, I didn't selectively leave that out. I've put it in every post. But the difference is we've changed our minds. Those sins come and go because we are in the flesh and will be unto the end but repentance is the key. Someone who claims to be a Christian but continues to live a sinful life not caring has not come to repentance (change of mind)

Yes. You have stated this. But then you go right back to alluding that repentance is not real if you sin or that repentance is some roadblock preventing sin.

JulieB67 said:
I've never claimed that. I've always stated we will always fall short we will always sin.That's the nature of the flesh. But it's about It's about repentance -change of heart and mind.

Christ became that one time atonment but it doesn't mean we are to continue to sin without a care in the world just because we are in the flesh.

No one ever says in these discussions that we should continue to sin. Yet someone always comes in and says we should not continue to sin, as if we said that we should.

JulieB67 said:
If someone continues to sin (not caring, there's a difference) after claiming to be a Christian, what have they changed their minds about? How are they thinking differently?

And now you came back full circle, back to you can never sin again. It's right there. Right above this post. I don't know what 'not caring' means. Sin is sin is sin. Period.

JulieB67 said:
Peter states-

Peter 4:1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind; for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"

I Peter 4:2 "That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."

That's what repentance is, that's what changing your mind is about.

Actually there is a difference. A person that has achieved repentance will not just willfully sin against God. They are in the flesh and will fall short and give into sin but then the Holy Spirit should continue to guide them, etc. Again, God is the heart knower.

Is 1 Peter 4.2 a roadblock for you? This is what we should do. Jesus knows we cannot do this. This is the target. Missing this is what sin is. Missing the target.

JulieB67 said:
I don't believe it was out of context. Throughout chapters 1 and 2 , he continues to drive the point that we have to keep his word, walk in the light, etc. If we do, the truth is in us. He tells us to sin not but if we do sin, we have an advocate. Why does he even state sin not but if we do we have an advocate if it doesn't matter? And I don't believe he was talking to unsaved people. He also states-

I John 2:4 "He that saith "I know Him," and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This is why John states that we have to walk in the light. Remember Christ states we can hang all of the commandments on two -loving God with all your heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. If you fall out of that, you have to repent/change your mind to get back into that light. We can't continue to walk in darkness knowingly. We can't just say I can live my life any way I want to. That's not what Christ taught and that's not what the disciples/apostles taught.

Again. Not what anyone here is teaching.
Having Jesus places us into the Light. Sinning does not put us into darkness when Jesus already dragged us out of the darkness and into the light.
You are heading right back into your circular argument.

JulieB67 said:
I John 2:5 "But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him."

Belief in Christ means we are to believe his ministry -what he taught, entrusting our salvation in him, etc. Christ did not teach that one can just go on sinning. And he also taught us how to go to the Father in prayer. The only difference now is we can boldy go to the throne though Christ, our advocate. But repenting (changing your mind) has to be there.

Belief in Christ means we trust Jesus to have done what He did and we have salvation through Him.
Repenting is not part of Salvation. It is a byproduct of.

Peace and Blessings

Guojing · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
Born Again, Born from Above, is eternnal salvation.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Peace and Blessings

So if they are equivalent to you, does your statement

"Works, and repentance, are byproducts or results of being born again",

means the same as saying

if you do not repent nor have works, you are not born again?

or, to put in another way, works and repentance are necessary conditions for being born again, but not sufficient?

AbbaLove · Mar 12, 2024

Strong in Him said:
Obviously not - there is no way the devil would tell us to repent.
As for repenting of sin:
Mark 1:4
Mark 6:12
Luke 3:3
Luke 11:32
Acts 3:19
Acts 8:22
And many more.

Some Christians believe that their future sins are already forgiven ... thus some even think repentance isn't necessary. Thus why sin still abounds in a lukewarm so-called Christian .

Thus why some think Paul (Romans 7) still considered himself a chief of sinners even after his born again conversion. In affect they justify their sin based on their misinterpretation.

Romans 7:14-17 is referring to living under the Law and not as a born again new creation in Christ. By purposely misinterpreting scripture they justify their belief that it is impossible to halt their inquity.

Why would Jesus say, "Stop your sinning or something worse may happen" and "Go and sin no more" if it wasn't possible under the old covenant, but now is possible as a born again new creation in Christ Jesus. It's obvious from some of the replies in these threads that more than a few don't believe it's possible for them to stop sinnnig. Was Jesus wrong or are they wrong? Even if 100 agree with them that's it impossible to stop stinning does that mean they are right because they can't stop?

Kokavkrystallos · Mar 12, 2024

"except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" Luke 13:3 & 5

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. - 1 John 3:6-10

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. - Revelation 2:5

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. - Revelation 2:21-22

Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. - Rev. 3:2-3

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. - Rev. 3:19

Lukaris · Mar 12, 2024

2 Corinthians 7:8-10

King James Version

8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

JulieB67 · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
Repenting is not part of Salvation. It is a byproduct of.

Someone who is truly abiding in Christ should come to that change of heart. If someone though continues to walk in darkness though the truth is not in them regardless. I've never swayed from that.

But then you go right back to alluding that repentance is not real if you sin or that repentance is some roadblock preventing sin.

And now you came back full circle, back to you can never sin again. It's right there. Right above this post. I don't know what 'not caring' means. Sin is sin is sin. Period.

Obviously you don't understand the repentance part. A person that has changed their minds -when they mess up and sin,- they will care, It should bother them. That's what having the Holy Spirit dwelling in you does. If you don't care, you haven't changed your mind/repented.

And I said that there's a difference between falling short -which is sinning and getting back on track (it's called missing the mark in the bible) and continued willful sinning. Christ paid the ultimate price and it wasn't so someone could go on living exactly as they always did not caring. And he will turn some away in the end.

Kokavkrystallos · Mar 12, 2024

Since the OP went to Acts, let's go to Acts

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 2:37-38

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you - Acts 3:19-20

TPop · Mar 12, 2024

bibletruths said:
You have a gross misunderstanding of the gospel.

"But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
"Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out"
"Repent and be baptized every one of you for the forgiveness of your sins"
"The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all people everywhere to repent"
"The kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe the gospel"
"Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life"

Need I go on?

By your own standard, you are relying on works, correct? Or does John 6 not say in response to the question of "What must we do to do the works God requires?" that "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

The point is that neither repentance, baptism, or belief are works rather you are developing your own standard of what constitutes working in an attempt to be saved on your own merits.

Perhaps provide Verses with your quotes? Single verses rarely stand to provide truth as you are looking for it. But with the story around it, one can understand the context.

"But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

I will exceed your effort here.

And more in 12.
[Luk 13:1-5 KJV] 1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.[Luk 13:6-9 KJV] 6 He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. 7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]: 9 And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down.

What is the context here? Who is speaking? Who are they speaking to? What are they speaking about? What does it matter?

Jesus speaking to disciples, followers, those gathered to hear him.
Speaking of things past. Horrible treatment and abuse.
Jesus changed this from 'Why did this happen' to 'what does this mean to me'.
Jesus demonstrates that we need to look inward, not outward.
Jesus demonstrates that God gives many chances but at some time, the end will come for the fruitless.

Not exactly about Salvation. It is about looking at things differently. The holy spirit had yet to descend. Context and timeline is important.

Peace and Blessings

Guojing · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
[Luk 13:1-5 KJV]

What is the context here? Who is speaking? Who are they speaking to? What are they speaking about? What does it matter?

Jesus speaking to disciples, followers, those gathered to hear him.
Speaking of things past. Horrible treatment and abuse.
Jesus changed this from 'Why did this happen' to 'what does this mean to me'.
Jesus demonstrates that we need to look inward, not outward.
Jesus demonstrates that God gives many chances but at some time, the end will come for the fruitless.

You asked the right questions but came up with the wrong answers.

The nation of Israel has always been known as a fig tree in scripture

Fig tree, vineyard and olive are always symbols in the Gospels referring to Israel and the Jews.

Some examples from the OT show that The fig tree is symbolic of Israel itself – It often symbolized the health of the nation both spiritually and physically. Hosea 9:10 says,

“When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your ancestors, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree.”

Later, the Bible tells us of the glorious time when

“Judah and Israel lived in safety, every man under his vine and his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.” (1 Kings 4:25)

The fig tree is a picture of Israel. In Jeremiah 24, we read about the prophet’s vision of two baskets of figs. Every person in Israel was symbolized by those figs. This means that the whole nation is one or several fig trees from which come the figs, the individual Israelites.

Elsewhere in the OT, when God was displeased with His people because of their unfaithfulness, He would make it known by referring to the lack of fruit on a fig tree. We have an example of this in Jeremiah 8:13. "I will surely consume them," says the Lord. "No grapes shall be on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things I have given them shall pass away from them."

Here again, Israel as a nation is symbolized by a fig tree.

TPop · Mar 12, 2024

rturner76 said:
If not your sins, what else would we need to repent?

Repent doesn't mean saying I'm sorry." Repentance philosophically means regretting what you did AND committing to making a change. You give your life to Jesus, and he will accept you. when you are accepted and you accept him, you are granted the ability to make a better choice the next time.

What I'm getting at is that we can't do it alone, and it's not that one's actions merit eternal life. We ask for it and receive it then we are in a covenant.

Otherwise, if we must do nothing to be with God, I think we are dabbling into universalism. I can see the merits of building a case for that but it's not Biblically sound in most people's interpretation.

Repent is to change your thinking. Jesus spoke to the crowd about sins Others committed. And he changed the conversation away from 'why did God allow that' or some such and to 'what does this mean to me?'.

Jesus taught people a whole new way of thinking. Instead of looking outward. He taught them to look inward. That is the repentance Jesus himself spoke of.

Thus, 'there are cruel mean evil people out there. What does that mean to me? Am I one. Can I be one of those? I need to rethink my foundation and thought processes and why I do things.'

While it can be about sin. Sin is not the focus. Chaning our whole thought process to be like Jesus' though process is what we need.

Peace and Blessings.

Kokavkrystallos · Mar 12, 2024

AbbaLove said:
Some Christians believe that their future sins are already forgiven ... thus some even think repentance isn't necessary. Thus why sin still abounds in a lukewarm so-called Christian .

Thus why some think Paul (Romans 7) still considered himself a chief of sinners even after his born again conversion. In affect they justify their sin based on their misinterpretation.

Romans 7:14-17 is referring to living under the Law and not as a born again new creation in Christ. By purposely misinterpreting scripture they justify their belief that it is impossible to halt their inquity.

Why would Jesus say, "Stop your sinning or something worse may happen" and "Go and sin no more" if it wasn't possible under the old covenant, but now is possible as a born again new creation in Christ Jesus. It's obvious from some of the replies in these threads that more than a few don't believe it's possible for them to stop sinnnig. Was Jesus wrong or are they wrong? Even if 100 agree with them that's it impossible to stop stinning does that mean they are right because they can't stop?

Absolutely! And why would Jesus say something like this if it was not possible to attain?

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." - Matthew 5:48

That doesn't get rid of our sin nature or the flesh, but you can live without sinning to the point you pray Psalm 139:23-24,
"Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting."

I'd never be so prideful as to think I definitely did not sin, because there's things we may not even know. I've had a few days like this, I wish I could say more. But I've had days where I was really not sure I'd sinned because I could not recall any conscious sin, and certainly nothing outward. Then I start thinking of sins of omission. Or did I eat too much and was guilty of gluttony? Stuff like that.
Psalm 139 is a good prayer to pray to cover such things.

Then there is also Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
Not works, but by faith we will naturally keep the law in the Spirit (Galatians 5) Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lists of the flesh."
Revelation 22:15 also, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Actually the 10 commandments are summed up in the 2 commandments Jesus gave to love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul, and strength, and 2) love your neighbor as yourself. Covers the vertical relationship with God, and the horizontal relationship with people, which also forms a cross.

TPop · Mar 12, 2024

Guojing said:
You asked the right questions but came up with the wrong answers.

The nation of Israel has always been known as a fig tree in scripture

Fig tree, vineyard and olive are always symbols in the Gospels referring to Israel and the Jews.

Some examples from the OT show that The fig tree is symbolic of Israel itself – It often symbolized the health of the nation both spiritually and physically. Hosea 9:10 says,

“When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your ancestors, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree.”

Later, the Bible tells us of the glorious time when

“Judah and Israel lived in safety, every man under his vine and his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Solomon.” (1 Kings 4:25)

The fig tree is a picture of Israel. In Jeremiah 24, we read about the prophet’s vision of two baskets of figs. Every person in Israel was symbolized by those figs. This means that the whole nation is one or several fig trees from which come the figs, the individual Israelites.

Elsewhere in the OT, when God was displeased with His people because of their unfaithfulness, He would make it known by referring to the lack of fruit on a fig tree. We have an example of this in Jeremiah 8:13. "I will surely consume them," says the Lord. "No grapes shall be on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things I have given them shall pass away from them."

Here again, Israel as a nation is symbolized by a fig tree.

While I agree on the Fig tree. That is not the primary focus. The primary focus was Repent. Demonstrated in one verse.
I was using the back story to address that Repent was not about sin. The Story was not about their, the listeners sins, it was about the evil done by anyone and how Jesus taught them to change their thinking on how they look at occurrences such as the two examples. Pilat and Shilo.

What you are speaking to goes in another branch, which is fine. But my statement is still accurate in my context. If not please demonstrate why. But again. I am not focusing on the fruit or the fig tree specifically.

Peace and Blessings.

TPop · Mar 12, 2024

Guojing said:
So if they are equivalent to you, does your statement

"Works, and repentance, are byproducts or results of being born again",

means the same as saying

if you do not repent nor have works, you are not born again?

or, to put in another way, works and repentance are necessary conditions for being born again, but not sufficient?

I can absolutely see someone having faith in Jesus > being born again. But not yet ready, too prideful, to ask forgiveness for their sins, or not yet have any Works done for God as yet.

I'm a little leary of repent unless it means to you a change of mind.

What does this verse mean to you? The Holy Spirit has yet to descend. They could not be 'born again' as yet, as we know it. If they died, they still had to wait. Did they not?
[Mat 4:17 KJV] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Peace and Blessings

Guojing · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
But my statement is still accurate in my context. If not please demonstrate why. But again. I am not focusing on the fruit or the fig tree specifically.

Peace and Blessings.

As I said, you asked the right question, but came out with the wrong answers.

There is no such thing as "accurate in your context"

If whom Jesus is speaking to is the nation of Israel, and he even specifically said Matthew 15:24, it will not be accurate to say Jesus was speaking to us as well in that passage.

Rightly divide the word of truth and scripture becomes much easier to understand (2 Timothy 2:15)

Guojing · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
What does this verse mean to you? The Holy Spirit has yet to descend. They could not be 'born again' as yet, as we know it. If they died, they still had to wait. Did they not?
[Mat 4:17 KJV] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Peace and Blessings

You can understand John's specific emphasis on being born again, as inextricably linked to Israel's relationship with God.

Their father, Abraham, was barren. Naturally, at his ripe old age, he could no longer have children.

God had to supernaturally intervene in his life to enable him to give birth to Issac.

Thru Issac, thru Jacob, thru his 12 sons, the nation literally came into existence.

Exodus 4:22 had a very insightful verse about this

And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

This was reinforced in Jeremiah 31:9

9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

God considered Israel his first born son.

They literally became a nation when God supernaturally rescued them from Egypt, separating the waters in the ocean until all of them literally cross over the water in dry land.

But as we all know, Israel broke their covenant of Law that was given at Mount Sinai. They killed or ignored all the prophets that God repeatedly sent to them when they were separated into 2 kingdoms and went into captivity under Babylon, and then under Persia.

Jesus used the parable of the tenants, one of my favorite parables to understand his first coming on Earth to Israel, in all 3 synoptic gospels. (Matthew 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19) to illustrate what repentence really meant to Israel

When Jesus and the 12 were preaching from Matt-John, they need to repent of rejecting God their Father in the OT, and believe in his Son is their promised King and Messiah, as foretold by their prophets.

God had mercy on them even when they killed his prophets (e.g. 2 Chronicles 24:20-22; Jeremiah 26:20-30; cf. Luke 13:34; Acts 7:52)., and is now sending his very own Son to Israel, to do a final persuasion to Israel to repent and believe in him.

If they do, as Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3, Israel will be born again.

Like many Christians, even I in the past, we attend churches where pastors often preach primarily from the 4 Gospels and early Acts, thus, we fail to understand that scripture need to be rightly divided (2 Timothy 2:15).

When you try to take Jesus's teachings in his first coming, which is directed only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24), and try to make it about us, you will run into all kinds of issues.

That is why Paul never mentioned the necessity of being born again to us gentiles. That concept is irrelevant to us.

d taylor · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
That is not correct.

We will all be judged.
Sinners for their sins, because none of their works will be deemed righteous.
Those with salvation will be judged whether the works they did were in God's name or in their own name.

Peace and Blessings

-

At the great white throne where unbelievers are judged, there is no mention of being judged for sins. They are judged for their works good or bad and to see if their name is written in the book of life.

Believers will be judged at the bema seat of The Messiah. The judgement will be for loss or gain of rewards.

ralliann · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
You are not address the same context.

Which is?

TPop said:
You changed the target.

which is

TPop said:
Your points are true of those post Salvation. They should be doing the works of their Father in heaven. But works are a by-product of salvation. Not part of it. You come close to stating that, then post debate as if you are against that. I confused.

Peace and Blessings

faith is the cause of the works. Saved by grace through faith.

AbbaLove · Mar 12, 2024

TPop said:
I'm a little leary of repent unless it means to you a change of mind.

Do you not think that there isn't a dramatic change of one's mind as a born again new creation in Christ (Titus 3:5)

You aren't alone when today's church dilutes the Gospel ... future sins are already forgiven without repenting necessary.

More than a few conclude that repentance isn't necessary because it's impossible to stop sinning.

Even as a born again new creation in Christ Jesus with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit as your teacher it's impossible to stop sinning. At least that's what some Christians believe. There's security in numbers, even if the numbers are faulty.

ralliann · Mar 12, 2024

Guojing said:
As I said, you asked the right question, but came out with the wrong answers.

There is no such thing as "accurate in your context"

If whom Jesus is speaking to is the nation of Israel, and he even specifically said Matthew 15:24, it will not be accurate to say Jesus was speaking to us as well in that passage.

I agree since wrath and the curse of the law was coming upon them.... That is why John came baptizing calling for the repentance to all Israel.

Guojing said:
Rightly divide the word of truth and scripture becomes much easier to understand (2 Timothy 2:15)

Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

I hate Repent of your sins to be Saved. it is a false gospel, lie from the pit of hell

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2 Corinthians 7:8-10 King James Version ​

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2 Corinthians 7:8-10

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