The SONS of God came in to the daughters of man

[BobRyan]

No, they were *fallen* Angels.

No they weren't --

the rebellious are never called "The sons of God" even though a bad angel may go some place where the sons of God are - that does not make that bad human or bad angel "one of the sons of God".

Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:.

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

Well you will need to provide something other than speculation for this thread.

Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

not true.

Jer 31:31-34 - the New Covenant.

1 Peter 1:10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Moses and Elijah stand with Christ IN immortal glory in Matt 17 - BEFORE the cross even happens.

Gal 3:8 "the GOSPEL was preached to Abraham"

Heb 11 -- ALL the giants of faith - are OT saints.

Context my friend, context matters.

Indeed - Bible details matter. You keep trying to skim past them.

There are NO OT uses of the phrase sons of God

The scriptures known to the NT saints included BOTH the OT and the NT
There is only ONE GOD - and He is God of both OT and NT
2 Tim 3:15-16 "ALL SCRIPTURE" given by inspiration from God is specifically a reference to the OT text. But also includes the NT
"The GOSPEL was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8
"There is only ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9

The scriptures simply do not back your assertion.

You will need a fact at some point.

Job 38:7

When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy

IN all cases it refers to those who are of God - those of God's family "children of God"

I challenge you to look up every use of “sons of God” in the OT

My Bible has 66 books - all authored by God Himself

I am ok with that -- how about you??

 

[Postvieww]

BobRyan said:

Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Start by reading the scripture in regard to "the sons of God"

Again your continual repeating of the above scriptures have no relevance to the Old Testament use of the phrase "sons of God".

This is a NT context which does not work in the OT economy. Jesus had not yet died, the Spirit had not yet been given to believers to dwell inside them.

OT godly men looked forward to the cross not fully understanding Gods plan none had received the death burial and resurrection of Jesus because it had not yet happened.

For the umpteenth time the term "sons of God" in the NT does NOT have the same meaning as it did in the OT. OT sons of God where created beings by the hand of God ,only angels, heavenly host of all types and Adam and Eve fit that description no others period. I am sorry you cannot grasp that fact.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Where was this meeting?

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

This meeting was not on earth because Satan came from the earth going to and fro and walking up and down in it. Satan spoke of where he came from not where he was for the meeting.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

This was obviously a heavenly meeting. the "sons of God" and satan came before the Lord in this heavenly meeting. Human Godly men did not go to heaven to meet with God. This was obviously a heavenly meeting the angelic beings with satan among them came before the Lord.The sons of of God in this context are heavenly beings created by the hand of God not human believers going to heaven where God dwells for a chat.


Job 2:2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Same senerio, location not on this earth no human believers in attendance only angelic created beings, heavenly host.

Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.It produces a baby with a sinful nature regardless of whether the both parents are believers or only one parent is.

Satan left the presence of the Lord which was not in Jobs living room and came back to earth to afflict Job.

The "sons of God" in these passages are angelic beings in the presence of God, beings created by the hand of God not human believers. That is the context here believe it or not your choice. Your Bible reads the same way as does mine.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Context is at creation!

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Context is at creation of the earth!

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

There were no human believers present at the creation of the earth shouting for joy only angelic beings created by the hand of God.

All three of the uses of the phrase "sons of God" here in Job refer to angelic being created by the hand of God NOT human believers!

To try to force the New Testament use of the phrase "sons of God " on to Genesis 6 is sloppy exegesis at best and dishonest at worst.

Again the phrase "sons of God" in the Old Testament is NEVER used to refer to human believers that only happens in the New Testament!

The difference is the "be ye not unequally yoked" principle in scripture where "you are the light of the world" Matt 4:14-16, and "you are the salt of the Earth - if the salt loses its savor - how then can IT be salted?" Matt 5:13-16

As was seen in the life of Solomon - corruption of the faith resulted from the marriage of believers with unbelievers.

I have never said believers did not marry non believers! What I have said is that type of marriage would not produce giants.

Indeed - mankind had corrupted their ways BUT God said to Noah "YOU are the one that I have found righteous on the Earth" Genesis 6.

Not "You have corrupt flesh".

I have never said Noah had corrupt flesh!

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

The three sons are the generations of Noah referred to in verse 9. Noahs son's are his blood line which was perfect and had NOT been corrupted. Yoiuyr assertion Noah was Nephilim is absurd and no scriptural.

Noah was not a "perfect" sinless man but his blood line (generations) had not been corrupted and was perfect.

And God says of the wicked humans "Their THOUGHTS are evil continually" Gen 6 not "their flesh is corrupt DNA continually"

Genesis 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

But yes also , all flesh had become corrupted.

On the contrary - it is listed in Gen 5 and it includes (but is not limited to)

Seth... Enoch, Methuseleh, Lamech, Noah

Genesis chapter 5 says all of these as having died before the flood except Enoch whom God took and Noah saved from the flood.

By contrast - Cain's line shows only rebellion.

Because they did not choose to get in the boat with Noah. By the time of the flood their faith too had become corrupt.

No one was offered a ride in the boat with Noah they did not have the choice.

false.

That is like saying "IF God created Adam and Eve sinless then they never would have fallen".

that idea does not survive very long in the book of Genesis.

Not sure what your point is here?

 

[Postvieww]

BobRyan said:

not true.

Jer 31:31-34 - the New Covenant.

Jer:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

This is a prophecy yet future to Jeremiah and all before the cross

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is a prophecy yet future to Jeremiah and all before the cross


34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is a prophecy yet future to Jeremiah and all before the cross

1 Peter 1:10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Moses and Elijah stand with Christ IN immortal glory in Matt 17 - BEFORE the cross even happens.

Gal 3:8 "the GOSPEL was preached to Abraham"

Heb 11 -- ALL the giants of faith - are OT saints.

Indeed - Bible details matter. You keep trying to skim past them.

The scriptures known to the NT saints included BOTH the OT and the NT
There is only ONE GOD - and He is God of both OT and NT
2 Tim 3:15-16 "ALL SCRIPTURE" given by inspiration from God is specifically a reference to the OT text. But also includes the NT
"The GOSPEL was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8
"There is only ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9

None of this changes the context of all of the "sons of God" references in Job or Genesis. Yes Old Testament saints were Godly men, yes they looked forward to the cross but in the OT they were never called "sons of God" . You are trying to reverse engineer scripture to get around the true meaning of Genesis 6.

You will need a fact at some point.

Job 38:7

When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy

IN all cases it refers to those who are of God - those of God's family "children of God"

In Job 38 no human children of God were present at a heavenly meeting!

My Bible has 66 books - all authored by God Himself

I am ok with that -- how about you??

So does mine have 66 book which I do believe. We are told to RIGHTLY divide, not slice and dice and force passages out of context to fit our own narrative.

 

[Postvieww]

Well you will need to provide something other than speculation for this thread.

Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Again and again and again this does not and will never change the context of the use of the phrase "sons of God" in Job and Genesis. You are trying to force a meaning from Romans 8:14 and John 1:12 onto Job 1:6 Job 2:1 Job 38:7 and Genesis 6:2&4 which does not and will never work. The context will never allow such.

 

[Postvieww]

So that means Noah was also himself "large human" so no wonder we find Nephilim on the Earth AFTER the flood -- Noah was Nephilim.

False Noah was not Nephilim!


You said: "You will need a fact at some point"

 

[Qubit]

the rebellious are never called "The sons of God"

They are not called Sons of God after they fall, but they were called Sons of God before they fell.

...even though a bad angel may go some place where the sons of God are - that does not make that bad human or bad angel "one of the sons of God".

The Book of Revelation has many verses teaching about Fallen Angels.

 

[Qubit]

You need to accept the obvious

Here is something obvious you missed.

Those that promote what you are promoting often do it as a way of concealing Racism. They teach of a Serpent Seed.

I have seen many people over the years teach that the Sons of Seth were the White Race, and therefore superior.

Look at the racism in your comment...

Genesis 5 shows us the lineage for Noah and his ancestors. Saints like Seth, Methuselah and Enoch. It also shows us the wicked in Cain's line of descent.

There are no superior bloodlines or superior races. You better watch what you are teaching, your comments reek of agenda.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

So that means Noah was also himself "large human" so no wonder we find Nephilim on the Earth AFTER the flood -- Noah was Nephilim.

False Noah was not Nephilim!

Indeed he was since only Noah and his 7 other family members cross over from pre-flood to post-flood and scripture says there were Nephilim before the flood and afterwards. Noah and his family of 8 are the only humans to cross over - so Noah and his family were Nephilim. That is how biology works.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is something obvious you missed.

Those that promote what you are promoting often do it as a way of concealing Racism.

you are "reaching"

They teach of a Serpent Seed.

nope.

The only thing stated is those that are the sons of God - born again believers and those who are not.

Look at the racism in your comment...

you need a fact.

 

[BobRyan]

They are not called Sons of God after they fall

true - fallen angels are never called "sons of God"

, but they were called Sons of God before they fell.

True - but nothing in scripture tells us that unfallen angels mate within their own species let alone having the biology to mate with other species. And in Matt 22 Christ flat out denies that speculation saying that Angels do not have family units, no spouses, no father-mother husband-wife relationships.

This is irrefutable.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Start by reading the scripture in regard to "the sons of God"

Again your continual repeating of the above scriptures have no relevance to the Old Testament use of the phrase "sons of God".

Until you notice that it is scripture - and God Himself is telling us about the term "sons of God".

"ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine, teaching, correction, instruction" 2 Tim 3:16 --

Instead of "SOME scripture is for teaching"
Instead of "ALL except the NT".

In the realm of accurate Bible exegesis part of the method is to allow yourself to be informed by what all of scripture says on a given topic.

The very aspect of exegesis you seem most interested in rejecting by that statement of your above.

Fine -- you have free will and are free to reject all that you wish. But why insist that the rest of us must join in doing such a thing??

OT godly men looked forward to the cross not fully understanding Gods plan none had received the death burial and resurrection of Jesus because it had not yet happened.

Not true.

Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in immortal glory in Matt 17 BEFORE the cross event happens.
Rom 4:17 says "God counts those things that are not yet as though they are"
Rev 1 refers to Christ as "the Lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world"
Is 53 refers to Christ's death as IN THE PAST.

For the umpteenth time the term "sons of God" in the NT does NOT have the same meaning as it did in the OT.

Not at all true.

There is not single particle of evidence in the Bible that Angels change from NT to OT or that Christ did not fully understand angels in Matt 22 when HE says they do not enter into family relationships. The idea that SONS of God -- a term being stated by God Himself - should NOT inform us as to the meaning if it is found in the NT is not at all a Bible principle.

"I do NOT change" -- is the teaching of God in the OT - Mal 3:6

We can trust Him when HE SAYS that the term applies to the born again children of God.

OT sons of God where created beings by the hand of God ,only angels, heavenly host of all types and Adam and Eve fit that description

Not true.

The NEW Creation , NEW Covenant saints of Jer 31:31-34 are every bit the "sons of God" that God says they are - in scripture.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

The three sons are the generations of Noah referred to in verse 9. Noahs son's are his blood line which was perfect and had NOT been corrupted. Yoiuyr assertion Noah was Nephilim is absurd and no scriptural.

Noah was not a "perfect" sinless man but his blood line (generations) had not been corrupted and was perfect.

1. There are NO "blood lines" statements in all of Genesis.
2. Noah was Nephilim so also his family since only THEY cross over from pre-flood and there are nephilim both BEFORE and AFTER the flood.
3. The imperfection of mankind in Gen 6 is stated as "the thoughts of his heart are evil continually" not "his blood is evil".

No one was offered a ride in the boat with Noah they did not have the choice.

Indeed they DID have a choice - as Peter points out in the NT "Noah was a preacher of righteousness" to HIS generation.

 

[Postvieww]

BobRyan said:

So that means Noah was also himself "large human" so no wonder we find Nephilim on the Earth AFTER the flood -- Noah was Nephilim.

Indeed he was since only Noah and his 7 other family members cross over from pre-flood to post-flood and scripture says there were Nephilim before the flood and afterwards. Noah and his family of 8 are the only humans to cross over - so Noah and his family were Nephilim. That is how biology works.

Your post is so far from the reality of what is actually said in scripture there is little chance of us agreeing on much of anything on this topic. Just out of curiosity can you show me the writings, video or any published literature that agrees with you that claims Noah was a giant. Frankly I have never heard this ridiculous theory before. Please tell me you didn’t make this all up!

 

[Diamond7]

Were these sons of God angels?

No Jesus tells us angels do not procreate. This is a reference to the descendants of Adam and the people that were not descended from Adam. Science calls them hunter gathers and food producers. This is where Cain found his wife. We are told Seth married a sister.

Matthew 22 [30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Just as Paul tells us believers shall not be yoked with non believers. God wanted to keep His people pure. In fact in Revelation we read about 144,000 that He has kept pure.

We also see this in Ezra 9:1 'After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, “The people of Israel, including the priests and the Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites."

2Indeed, the Israelites have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed has been mixed with the people of the land. And the leaders and officials have taken the lead in this unfaithfulness!”

Maybe this is why Moses allowed divorce: 3So now let us make a covenant before our God to send away all the foreign wives and their children, according to the counsel of my lord and of those who tremble at the command of our God. Let it be done according to the Law.

 

[Postvieww]

Until you notice that it is scripture - and God Himself is telling us about the term "sons of God".

I have notice that context matters in scripture and apparently you have not. God through scripture is telling us many things and until one can rightly divide and use words in their original context it is impossible to understand what is being said through the scriptures.

In the NT Jesus is the Son of God In the NT you and I are a son of God can you not see how context matters? You and I will never be the Son of God but we are a son of God . Context matters. You have totally ignored context in our discussion to try to prove a false narrative that is poor exegesis.

"ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine, teaching, correction, instruction" 2 Tim 3:16 --

True.

Instead of "SOME scripture is for teaching"
Instead of "ALL except the NT".

I am not ignoring the NT. That is a false charge. I am using the words of the NT in the context of the NT and the words of the OT in the context of the OT and you are not. You falsely assign the same deffiniton of "sons of God" to the OT that is used in the NT. That is error on your part.

In the realm of accurate Bible exegesis part of the method is to allow yourself to be informed by what all of scripture says on a given topic.

I am sorry, on this topic you are not using "accurate exegesis." Many of your points are flawed by not properly understanding context.

The very aspect of exegesis you seem most interested in rejecting by that statement of your above.

Another false charge because of your misunderstanding and miss application of scripture on this topic.

Fine -- you have free will and are free to reject all that you wish. But why insist that the rest of us must join in doing such a thing??

All I am rejecting here is false teaching steming from misunderstanding and misapplication of scripure.

 

[Postvieww]

There is not single particle of evidence in the Bible that Angels change from NT to OT

Change from what to what? What do you mean here? I have never claimed angels are different in the OT from the NT.

or that Christ did not fully understand angels in Matt 22 when HE says they do not enter into family relationships.

You have miss stated and miss use Matt. 22. Jesus did not contradict Genesis 6 with Matt 22. The point He was making in Matt has nothing to do with Genesis 6.

Matt 22 does not say what fallen angels can and cannot do. You have ADDED to scripture in this case. Jesus said angels in heaven do not marry. Anthything more than that you have added to scripture. Jesus did not address fallen sinful angels who are no longer in heaven but were cast out.

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

1.Fallen angels are no longer angels of God they are followers of satan.
2. Fallen angels are are no longer in heaven.
3. Jesus did not say what angels were capable or not capable of He said what they are in heaven.

You have added to scripture because you cannot get your head around what actually happened in Genesis 6.

The idea that SONS of God -- a term being stated by God Himself - should NOT inform us as to the meaning if it is found in the NT is not at all a Bible principle.

"I do NOT change" -- is the teaching of God in the OT - Mal 3:6

God does not change but He also said to RIGHTLY divide the Word of God, you are not doing that in this case.
You are the one changing the Word of God for your own purpose.

We can trust Him when HE SAYS that the term applies to the born again children of God.

Yes we can trust God and it does apply to born again children of God in its proper context. You have ignored proper context to further this crusade you are on.

 

[Postvieww]

Noah was Nephilim.

In your world what is Nephilim?

How did Noah become Nephilim?

Are we all now Nephilim?

A lot you say here does not line up with scripture. You have made this wild claim now prove it with scripture and lean not to your own understanding. I am not interested in your human reasoning here, Show us from scripture that Noah is Nephilim.

 

[BobRyan]

In your world what is Nephilim?

In the actual Bible it is someone taller than the average person in Moses' day.

It is those who lived on the Earth BEFORE the mixed marriages in Gen 6 according to the text.

How did Noah become Nephilim?

All humans were what Moses called "Nephilim" before the flood because they all lived longer than the average today and they were all taller and stronger.

Adam was a giant "compared" to people of Moses' day and our day. Over 12 feet tall given what the OT says about those giants.
Adam had access to the tree of life which gave him "long life" even after expelled from Eden he retained a certain degree of "long life" so also all those before the flood since they were direct descendants of Adam.

Are we all now Nephilim?

We are all human but we are not as tall or strong as those that lived before the flood.

A lot you say here does not line up with scripture

It is in actual scripture. What is not in scripture is "sinless angels mated with other species"
What is not in scripture is "fallen angels mated with other species"

. You have made this wild claim now prove it with scripture

Gen 6:4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

The term means they were taller "giants" by comparison to average humans in Moses' day. And it says that they were there BEFORE the mixed marriages not BECAUSE of the mixed marriages.

So then -- "Bible details matter" once again.

 

[BobRyan]

KJV –
John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his nam
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
Luke 20:36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

OT “Sons of God”
KJV - “
Hos 11:1 “When Israel was a child, I loved him, I called My son out of Egypt” NKJV, YLT, NIV

Ex 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.” ’ ”

Giants in the Bible

Goliath - was a legendary Philistine warrior
a Gittite. Killed by David. 1Chr 20:5 :"Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite", therefore Goliath was a son of "the giant in Gath". 2Sam 21:22 refers to 4 sons born to the giant in Gath, which were slain by David and his 4 servants thus makes (5) sons

A descendant of Rapha in a lineage of giants, he is most famous for his battle with David,

Rapha: Originally the name of one of the Philistines who was of the body "Rephaites" stood in the text. The plural of this word, or at least a plural of this stem, is REPHAIM (which see). (2) Raphah (the King James Version "Rapha"), a descendant of Saul ( 1 Chronicles 8:37 ). See REPHAIAH

The word Rephaim means "terrible ones" and they are described in the Bible as "giants" and "mighty men." The Rephaim (or Rephaites) appear first in a battle with king Chedorlaomer (Genesis 14:5). Chedorlaomer and his allies defeated the Rephaim, along with the Zuzim and Emim peoples. The Rephaim were similar to the Anakim (Deuteronomy 2:20–21). The Rephaim are mentioned again in Exodus when the Israelites were trying to enter the Promised Land.



Deut 2:10,11
Both the Anakim and the Emim are giants and are both regarded as Raphaim.
Numbers 13:33 We also saw the Nephilim there (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.” NASB

Number 13:33 - and there we saw the Nephilim, sons of Anak, of the Nephilim; and we are in our own eyes as grasshoppers; and so we were in their eyes.' YLT

ALL other translations use ‘Giants” as the translation for Nephilim in Numbers 13