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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77672192" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>But this is not the creation of a new setup. Husband and wives have existed for millenia. The institution of marriage has been around for a long time. That males abused that institution doesn't create a new insitution. It is exploiting and abusing the existing institution.</p><p></p><p>You could say the insitution was recreated but recreating the same insitution which is the joining of man and women in matrimony but then changing the power balance and control of each person within the same insitution.</p><p></p><p>But the point of that arguement about identifying the rationality of the abuser was that the objective measures can prove that the abuser has irrational and unreal thinking and beliefs. Just like we can prove that someone who believes in a unreal objective fact in physics like the earth is flat.</p><p></p><p>But the doctors, the health system and the treatment options are only as good as whats on offer as to those choices available. For example big Pharma may have a lot of sway over which treatment options are offered. So the choices may be limiting and even not in the best interests for all. Look at the massive problem we have with prescription medication. This is a system problem because the systems has over stated the treatment option of pills rather than alternatives.</p><p></p><p>So in fact in some ways peoples choices were controlled because the options were limited in the first place by the system patients believed was doing the right thing. At the same time the rise in prescription medications is not all from the health system. Its also driven by individuals and society who demands quick remedies for not sleeping, feeling bad, and stressed.</p><p></p><p>So its unreal to think the system is as simple as poor old innnocent patient and mean old oppressive system. They work hand in hand.</p><p></p><p>I agree but the ironic thing Rights based politics has created a monster in that we demanded that individuals have the right to demand their own treatment and how they want to live. This is seen best in consent laws around minors where we now deem that they have a right to make decisions that they may not completely understand that may have long term harm.</p><p></p><p>So now people expect to recieve the treatment they want, more or less telling doctors what treatment they want and doctors going along. This is a good example of the inverted power imbalance of patients having sway of doctors. So the public is also dictating what they want from the health system and we are accommodating that.</p><p></p><p>But the other way the system dictates mentioned above is how big Pharma and business influences treatment options and what gets offered over other alternatives thus limiting and dictating health outcomes. But big Pharm is the symptom of other factors like economic control so its not as simple as doctor and patient operating in some vacumn.</p><p></p><p>Yes and the qualifying word there ius "unnecessary". This is very, very important. We need to be clear on what is unnecessary and know when its going to lead to abuse and when its not. I suggest that the best way to determine this is by grounding things in reality, in facts and experience and not the unfounded assumptions of ideologues.</p><p></p><p>Hum sort of but not really. Sometimes you believe its the right thing for you only to later find it wasn't, you could have made a better choice as far as freely choosing minus the biases and unrealities we sometimes hold which lead us down a garden path lol.</p><p></p><p>I think to really make voluntary choices is to really know yourself. That for many takes time as you get older and wiser. But certainly modern life, with its expectations, stresses enough to make you sick. Many people fall for it and some die as a result believing it was the key to true happiness and freedom. Only to find it actualy bound them up rather than set them free.</p><p></p><p>Look at the poor students who have to borrow as much as a house just to get a degree and then be bound doing some job unrelated job to make ends meet. I am sure they did volunteer for that when they signed up.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77672192, member: 342064"] But this is not the creation of a new setup. Husband and wives have existed for millenia. The institution of marriage has been around for a long time. That males abused that institution doesn't create a new insitution. It is exploiting and abusing the existing institution. You could say the insitution was recreated but recreating the same insitution which is the joining of man and women in matrimony but then changing the power balance and control of each person within the same insitution. But the point of that arguement about identifying the rationality of the abuser was that the objective measures can prove that the abuser has irrational and unreal thinking and beliefs. Just like we can prove that someone who believes in a unreal objective fact in physics like the earth is flat. But the doctors, the health system and the treatment options are only as good as whats on offer as to those choices available. For example big Pharma may have a lot of sway over which treatment options are offered. So the choices may be limiting and even not in the best interests for all. Look at the massive problem we have with prescription medication. This is a system problem because the systems has over stated the treatment option of pills rather than alternatives. So in fact in some ways peoples choices were controlled because the options were limited in the first place by the system patients believed was doing the right thing. At the same time the rise in prescription medications is not all from the health system. Its also driven by individuals and society who demands quick remedies for not sleeping, feeling bad, and stressed. So its unreal to think the system is as simple as poor old innnocent patient and mean old oppressive system. They work hand in hand. I agree but the ironic thing Rights based politics has created a monster in that we demanded that individuals have the right to demand their own treatment and how they want to live. This is seen best in consent laws around minors where we now deem that they have a right to make decisions that they may not completely understand that may have long term harm. So now people expect to recieve the treatment they want, more or less telling doctors what treatment they want and doctors going along. This is a good example of the inverted power imbalance of patients having sway of doctors. So the public is also dictating what they want from the health system and we are accommodating that. But the other way the system dictates mentioned above is how big Pharma and business influences treatment options and what gets offered over other alternatives thus limiting and dictating health outcomes. But big Pharm is the symptom of other factors like economic control so its not as simple as doctor and patient operating in some vacumn. Yes and the qualifying word there ius "unnecessary". This is very, very important. We need to be clear on what is unnecessary and know when its going to lead to abuse and when its not. I suggest that the best way to determine this is by grounding things in reality, in facts and experience and not the unfounded assumptions of ideologues. Hum sort of but not really. Sometimes you believe its the right thing for you only to later find it wasn't, you could have made a better choice as far as freely choosing minus the biases and unrealities we sometimes hold which lead us down a garden path lol. I think to really make voluntary choices is to really know yourself. That for many takes time as you get older and wiser. But certainly modern life, with its expectations, stresses enough to make you sick. Many people fall for it and some die as a result believing it was the key to true happiness and freedom. Only to find it actualy bound them up rather than set them free. Look at the poor students who have to borrow as much as a house just to get a degree and then be bound doing some job unrelated job to make ends meet. I am sure they did volunteer for that when they signed up. [/QUOTE]
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