Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Leaderboards
Games
Our Blog
Blogs
New entries
New comments
Blog list
Search blogs
Credits
Transactions
Shop
Blessings: ✟0.00
Tickets
Open new ticket
Watched
Donate
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
More options
Toggle width
Share this page
Share this page
Share
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Menu
Install the app
Install
Forums
Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77664562" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>Not necessarily coercision though we know the State uses coersion in some of its policies and laws to control society to behave a certain way.</p><p></p><p>But as the links mention more so control, good control that allows us to function more efficently and productively and also to unite people within a common system where everyone knows who they are and what their responsibilities are.</p><p></p><p>But dominance hierarchies are also natural formations for society. For example strength based hierarchies. The strong are at the to and the weak at the bottom. The strong are looked up to naturally because they provide benefits for society. Social groups across species rapidly self-organize into hierarchies, where members vary in their level of power, influence, skill, or dominance.</p><p></p><p>Males dominate the building labor market due to their strength and spatial thinking. But this doesn't make them dominating abusively. It just means they naturally dominate this industry due to natural reasons provided by evolution in having different physical and cognitive abilities.</p><p></p><p>Its a magnified version of the same systems we use to organize work, institutions, families ect. By placing competent people in charge over others who then have varying degrees of control and power over others below them. This is a naturally efficent and in fact the only way we can organise groups and large populations such as within cities and nations.</p><p></p><p><strong>Maintaining Order and Stability</strong></p><p><em>One of the most crucial roles of hierarchy is its<strong> ability to establish and maintain order within a society.</strong> Hierarchical systems <strong>provide a clear chain of command and define the roles and responsibilities </strong>of individuals at each level. This structure <strong>helps prevent chaos and confusion</strong>, allowing for smoother coordination and collaboration among members.</em></p><p><em><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fundamental-structure-human-societies-muhammad-azeem-qureshi/" target="_blank">A Fundamental Structure in Human Societies.</a></em></p><p></p><p>Yes a military or more magnified version of chain of command which is vital to society in times of conflict or social chaos. In fact it prevents chaos and a total breack down of law and order. Governments often use this more magnified command such as with the covid epidemic.</p><p></p><p>But a milder version is everywhere in society and we don't allow complete freedom and expression to do whatever people want. Even social norms are a implicit form of control and rigidity in that we condemn and ostrisize people who misbehave thus implicitly making people conform to set behaviours as opposed to any behaviour. We are constantly valuing and devaluing people, looking up to thosde we value and looking down on others who we believe are not.</p><p></p><p>Then please provide an arguement and evidence for the links I provided which clearly state they are vital and necessary for organising society.</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Organizing social groups in a hierarchical manner is <strong>an efficient way to maximize group cohesion and productivity</strong></span></em></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em><strong><em>One of the most crucial roles of hierarchy is its<strong> ability to establish and maintain order within a society.</strong></em></strong></em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em><strong><em><strong><em>Hierarchical systems <strong>provide a clear chain of command and define the roles and responsibilities </strong>of individuals at each level.</em></strong></em></strong></em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em><strong><em><strong><em>This structure <strong>helps prevent chaos and confusion</strong>, allowing for smoother coordination and collaboration among members.</em></strong></em></strong></em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em><strong><em><strong><em>Hierarchies <strong>help forge social identities and promote a sense of belonging</strong> within groups.</em></strong></em></strong></em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em><strong><em><strong><em>Hierarchies can serve as a <strong>basis for social cohesion, helping to unite people under common objectives and values</strong>.</em></strong></em></strong></em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em><strong><em><strong><em>Hierarchical systems often <strong>encourage individuals to strive for improvement and advancement, fostering a sense of purpose and motivation.</strong></em></strong></em></strong></em></span></p><p><em><strong><em><strong><em><strong><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>Hierarchies allow societies to </em></span><em><strong><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">manage larger populations, diverse skills, and specialized roles more effectively.</span></strong></em></strong></em></strong></em></strong></em></p><p></p><p>Having a clear hierarchal framework and lines of authority even prevents abuse of power.</p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Hierarchy provides a framework for the <strong>establishment of authority and the accountability of decision-makers. </strong>Additionally,<strong> clear lines of authority help prevent the abuse of power</strong> </span></em></p><p></p><p>But that doesn't make hierarchies inherently abusive and something we need to get rid of from society. If we did society would decend into chaos.</p><p></p><p>Like we can demonstrate harm in relation to power and control in a marriage, relationship, friendship, business partnership, an aquaintence, a family or any other setup doesn't make these things inherently abusive and something to get rid of from society. Don't shoot the carrier, the vessel, the setup as the abuser. Its the human who uses these examples who is the abuser of those situations and makes them abusive.</p><p></p><p>Your not getting what I am saying. The family hierarchy is sort of like a mini version of society. The parents sit at the top of the family hierarchy over the children, older children may be given more control and responsibility. But to maintain order and stability it is this setup that must be upheld even to allow creativity and self expression to happen within that framework.</p><p></p><p>This is the same organisation of society, institutions, politics, welfare, economics everything takes this form to allow order and stability, for individuals to know their place and for them to take responsibility and to even flourish.</p><p></p><p>So the same hierarchies that are necessary for society can become abusive and controlling against people, certain people. But we don't get rid of the setup, the hierarchies as they are important when utilised correctly.</p><p></p><p>We actually instill checks and balances to stop those hierarchies becoming abusive. Thats why we have Independent bodies and representatives to point out the potential risk of abuse and control monitoring these systems.</p><p></p><p>Its the only think that can determine our beliefs. Our beliefs, emotions and mentality comes from the same place our Mind. We can at least say that our beliefs involve our perceptions of the world. Would you agree.</p><p></p><p>Actually this is a very good example of how belief on its own is not a good way to determine why people abuse and use violence. Especially if we are talking about upstream thinking and behaviour and the beliefs about what is the right way to think and behave that may l;ead to abuse and control.</p><p></p><p>So here you are accusing me of holding such a belief, a wrong belief, that underpins abusive violence and control. But lets see what this statement actually entails. How you came to this conclusion and whether its actually more about your own beliefs and assumptions, your own ideology or based in fact. </p><p></p><p>The facts and evidence which were behind that statement ie one of the benefits of hiearchies is it helps maintain order and stability in society which is the exact opposite of chaos.</p><p> </p><p><strong>Maintaining Order and Stability</strong></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">One of the most crucial roles of hierarchy is its ability to establish and maintain order within a society. Hierarchical systems provide a clear chain of command and define the roles and responsibilities of individuals at each level. </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>This structure helps prevent chaos</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><strong> and confusion, allowing for smoother coordination and collaboration</strong> among members. By having designated leaders and subordinates, hierarchy ensures that decisions are made efficiently and that everyone understands their place within the system.</span></em></p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">So because you did not bother to read the evidence as to why I made this statement which was based on the factual evidence you have wrongly accused me of holding beliefs that underpin abuse and violence. </span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">No quite the opposite. The more we can get understanding of the individual risk factors and how the risk factors associated with the individual and group on a family, community and wider societal influences the more we understand the individual, group and the individual within the group and the wider society. Its a much more comprehensive and holistic view of the issue.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">But we also must understand the protective factors as they counter the risk factoprs to an extent.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">The beauty of the Risk and Protective Factor approach which is part of the social-ecological model which takes a multilevel view of the risk and protective factors on an individual, family, community and the wider social influences. So its much more comprehensive than just looking at the wider societal factors like norms.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"> </span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"><em>Prevention requires understanding the factors that influence violence. CDC<strong> uses a four-level social-ecological model to better understand violence and the effect of potential prevention strategies.</strong> This model <strong>considers the complex interplay between individual, relationship, community, and societal factors</strong>.</em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"><a href="https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/about/social-ecologicalmodel.html#:~:text=Prevention%20requires%20understanding%20the%20factors,%2C%20community%2C%20and%20societal%20factors" target="_blank">The Social-Ecological Model: A Framework for Prevention |Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC</a>.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">So what about all the evidence, the links saying you do. Are they wrong, are they lying, are they ignorant and don't know what they are talking about. If so can you cite evidence that abusers don't have unrealistic expectations and their abusing is based on realistic expectations of the situation.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Which seems a contradiction in terms. To have coherent and realistic expectations would in itself mean the parent is not going to freak or be concerned when a kids behaviour is out of the norm or not always behaving good. If they abuse for behaviour that doesn't derserve abuse then the expectation has to be unrealistic.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77664562, member: 342064"] Not necessarily coercision though we know the State uses coersion in some of its policies and laws to control society to behave a certain way. But as the links mention more so control, good control that allows us to function more efficently and productively and also to unite people within a common system where everyone knows who they are and what their responsibilities are. But dominance hierarchies are also natural formations for society. For example strength based hierarchies. The strong are at the to and the weak at the bottom. The strong are looked up to naturally because they provide benefits for society. Social groups across species rapidly self-organize into hierarchies, where members vary in their level of power, influence, skill, or dominance. Males dominate the building labor market due to their strength and spatial thinking. But this doesn't make them dominating abusively. It just means they naturally dominate this industry due to natural reasons provided by evolution in having different physical and cognitive abilities. Its a magnified version of the same systems we use to organize work, institutions, families ect. By placing competent people in charge over others who then have varying degrees of control and power over others below them. This is a naturally efficent and in fact the only way we can organise groups and large populations such as within cities and nations. [B]Maintaining Order and Stability[/B] [I]One of the most crucial roles of hierarchy is its[B] ability to establish and maintain order within a society.[/B] Hierarchical systems [B]provide a clear chain of command and define the roles and responsibilities [/B]of individuals at each level. This structure [B]helps prevent chaos and confusion[/B], allowing for smoother coordination and collaboration among members. [URL='https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fundamental-structure-human-societies-muhammad-azeem-qureshi/']A Fundamental Structure in Human Societies.[/URL][/I] Yes a military or more magnified version of chain of command which is vital to society in times of conflict or social chaos. In fact it prevents chaos and a total breack down of law and order. Governments often use this more magnified command such as with the covid epidemic. But a milder version is everywhere in society and we don't allow complete freedom and expression to do whatever people want. Even social norms are a implicit form of control and rigidity in that we condemn and ostrisize people who misbehave thus implicitly making people conform to set behaviours as opposed to any behaviour. We are constantly valuing and devaluing people, looking up to thosde we value and looking down on others who we believe are not. Then please provide an arguement and evidence for the links I provided which clearly state they are vital and necessary for organising society. [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Organizing social groups in a hierarchical manner is [B]an efficient way to maximize group cohesion and productivity[/B][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I][B][I]One of the most crucial roles of hierarchy is its[B] ability to establish and maintain order within a society. [I]Hierarchical systems [B]provide a clear chain of command and define the roles and responsibilities [/B]of individuals at each level. This structure [B]helps prevent chaos and confusion[/B], allowing for smoother coordination and collaboration among members. Hierarchies [B]help forge social identities and promote a sense of belonging[/B] within groups. Hierarchies can serve as a [B]basis for social cohesion, helping to unite people under common objectives and values[/B]. Hierarchical systems often [B]encourage individuals to strive for improvement and advancement, fostering a sense of purpose and motivation.[/B][/I][/B][/I][/B][/I][/COLOR] [I][B][I][B][I][B][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I]Hierarchies allow societies to [/I][/COLOR][I][B][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]manage larger populations, diverse skills, and specialized roles more effectively.[/COLOR][/B][/I][/B][/I][/B][/I][/B][/I] Having a clear hierarchal framework and lines of authority even prevents abuse of power. [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Hierarchy provides a framework for the [B]establishment of authority and the accountability of decision-makers. [/B]Additionally,[B] clear lines of authority help prevent the abuse of power[/B] [/COLOR][/I] But that doesn't make hierarchies inherently abusive and something we need to get rid of from society. If we did society would decend into chaos. Like we can demonstrate harm in relation to power and control in a marriage, relationship, friendship, business partnership, an aquaintence, a family or any other setup doesn't make these things inherently abusive and something to get rid of from society. Don't shoot the carrier, the vessel, the setup as the abuser. Its the human who uses these examples who is the abuser of those situations and makes them abusive. Your not getting what I am saying. The family hierarchy is sort of like a mini version of society. The parents sit at the top of the family hierarchy over the children, older children may be given more control and responsibility. But to maintain order and stability it is this setup that must be upheld even to allow creativity and self expression to happen within that framework. This is the same organisation of society, institutions, politics, welfare, economics everything takes this form to allow order and stability, for individuals to know their place and for them to take responsibility and to even flourish. So the same hierarchies that are necessary for society can become abusive and controlling against people, certain people. But we don't get rid of the setup, the hierarchies as they are important when utilised correctly. We actually instill checks and balances to stop those hierarchies becoming abusive. Thats why we have Independent bodies and representatives to point out the potential risk of abuse and control monitoring these systems. Its the only think that can determine our beliefs. Our beliefs, emotions and mentality comes from the same place our Mind. We can at least say that our beliefs involve our perceptions of the world. Would you agree. Actually this is a very good example of how belief on its own is not a good way to determine why people abuse and use violence. Especially if we are talking about upstream thinking and behaviour and the beliefs about what is the right way to think and behave that may l;ead to abuse and control. So here you are accusing me of holding such a belief, a wrong belief, that underpins abusive violence and control. But lets see what this statement actually entails. How you came to this conclusion and whether its actually more about your own beliefs and assumptions, your own ideology or based in fact. The facts and evidence which were behind that statement ie one of the benefits of hiearchies is it helps maintain order and stability in society which is the exact opposite of chaos. [B]Maintaining Order and Stability[/B] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]One of the most crucial roles of hierarchy is its ability to establish and maintain order within a society. Hierarchical systems provide a clear chain of command and define the roles and responsibilities of individuals at each level. [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]This structure helps prevent chaos[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][B] and confusion, allowing for smoother coordination and collaboration[/B] among members. By having designated leaders and subordinates, hierarchy ensures that decisions are made efficiently and that everyone understands their place within the system.[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]So because you did not bother to read the evidence as to why I made this statement which was based on the factual evidence you have wrongly accused me of holding beliefs that underpin abuse and violence. [/COLOR] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]No quite the opposite. The more we can get understanding of the individual risk factors and how the risk factors associated with the individual and group on a family, community and wider societal influences the more we understand the individual, group and the individual within the group and the wider society. Its a much more comprehensive and holistic view of the issue. But we also must understand the protective factors as they counter the risk factoprs to an extent.[/COLOR] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]The beauty of the Risk and Protective Factor approach which is part of the social-ecological model which takes a multilevel view of the risk and protective factors on an individual, family, community and the wider social influences. So its much more comprehensive than just looking at the wider societal factors like norms. [I]Prevention requires understanding the factors that influence violence. CDC[B] uses a four-level social-ecological model to better understand violence and the effect of potential prevention strategies.[/B] This model [B]considers the complex interplay between individual, relationship, community, and societal factors[/B].[/I] [URL='https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/about/social-ecologicalmodel.html#:~:text=Prevention%20requires%20understanding%20the%20factors,%2C%20community%2C%20and%20societal%20factors']The Social-Ecological Model: A Framework for Prevention |Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC[/URL].[/COLOR] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]So what about all the evidence, the links saying you do. Are they wrong, are they lying, are they ignorant and don't know what they are talking about. If so can you cite evidence that abusers don't have unrealistic expectations and their abusing is based on realistic expectations of the situation. Which seems a contradiction in terms. To have coherent and realistic expectations would in itself mean the parent is not going to freak or be concerned when a kids behaviour is out of the norm or not always behaving good. If they abuse for behaviour that doesn't derserve abuse then the expectation has to be unrealistic.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
Top
Bottom