The sun was struck dumb and did not set for about a whole day

Sorn said:

God can override the natural laws,

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Actually He can not. He can not lie, cheat or steal. He can not contradict Himself. He does supply abundantly above and beyond all we could ever ask or think, but he does not violate his laws to do that. God is not lawless.

Every miracle that I have ever seen is God restoring things to His plan and purpose. It is difficult to prove a miracle because everything is the way it should be. You have to show that there was a problem that needed corrected.

The universe is very, very finely tuned. Even a very slight violation of God's laws would be catastrophic. We see this in chaos theory and the butterfly effect.

1. Physical Constants: These are fundamental values that govern the behavior of the universe. Examples include the speed of light, gravitational constant, and Planck’s constant. If these constants were even slightly different, the universe might not support life as we know it.
2. Deterministic Chaos: Chaos theory reveals that seemingly random systems actually follow deterministic rules. Small differences in initial conditions can lead to vastly different outcomes over time.

I do not know the meaning of this passage. But I do know what it can not be.

Diamond7 said:

Actually He can not. He can not lie, cheat or steal. He can not contradict Himself. He does supply abundantly above and beyond all we could ever ask or think, but he does not violate his laws to do that. God is not lawless.

Every miracle that I have ever seen is God restoring things to His plan and purpose. It is difficult to prove a miracle because everything is the way it should be. You have to show that there was a problem that needed corrected.

The universe is very, very finely tuned. Even a very slight violation of God's laws would be catastrophic. We see this in chaos theory and the butterfly effect.

1. Physical Constants: These are fundamental values that govern the behavior of the universe. Examples include the speed of light, gravitational constant, and Planck’s constant. If these constants were even slightly different, the universe might not support life as we know it.
2. Deterministic Chaos: Chaos theory reveals that seemingly random systems actually follow deterministic rules. Small differences in initial conditions can lead to vastly different outcomes over time.

I do not know the meaning of this passage. But I do know what it can not be.

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You are like the Pharisees that criticized Jesus for healing on the Sabbath!, but as He said to them, He is Lord of the sabbath so can override it whenever He chooses.
So it is with the natural laws, they are implemented by God & He is Lord over them too & as such has complete control & freedom to override them as He sees fit. Probably all the miracles done in the bible involve the suspension or overriding of natural physical laws for them to occur. He is not lying, cheating or stealing if & when He overrides the laws that govern nature as He is above both nature & its laws.

Sorn said:

You are like the Pharisees

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Now we know what you are, but what am I?

Sorn said:

God didn't write that though did He?! That was written by the author of the book of Joshua, a man who was on Earth and saw things from the perspective of someone on Earth, recounting the events they saw, its not a scientific piece of text. From the perspective of anyone on Earth the earth stopping its rotation would indeed appear as the sun having stopped moving.

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So The Bible is not the Word of God, but is the word of man

Diamond7 said:

Now we know what you are, but what am I?

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Look, the point is God is not subject to the laws He creates for the natural or created world. He is sovereign to them & can amend, override or suspend them whenever & however He sees fit. He even says He is going to do that when the current heavens & earth are done away with & replaced by the new creation.
God is fully capable of stopping the earth from rotating / orbiting & nullifying all acceleration forces instantaneously & is likewise capable of starting everything up again in the blink of an eye. Doing that to 1 tiny planet in a universe of billions of planets is no problem for Him whatsoever.

d taylor said:

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So The Bible is not the Word of God, but is the word of man

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It is the inspired word, inspired being the operative text, not the transcription or dictated word of God. It is full of passages that describe a scene, nothing wrong with that, but its described from the point of view of the observer. Why are the 4 gospels different on some points, points that some say means they contradict or cancel each other out??? Its because the are eyewitness accounts, and everyone's point of view, recollection and account will differ slightly. God inspired it, not dictated His word & the scribe has some freedom in what they write.
At the end of the day the battle that Joshua fought is written down as observed by the writer, from his point of view, with his understanding of the world being used to describe what he saw.

Sorn said:

Look, the point is God is not subject to the laws He creates

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The point is God is subject to the laws He creates. He is a lot more exact and a lot more precise then people can imagine. When He does a work to restore us, it is to return us to His plan and His purpose. People are lawless, not God.

Sorn said:

It is the inspired word, inspired being the operative text, not the transcription or dictated word of God. It is full of passages that describe a scene, nothing wrong with that, but its described from the point of view of the observer. Why are the 4 gospels different on some points, points that some say means they contradict or cancel each other out??? Its because the are eyewitness accounts, and everyone's point of view, recollection and account will differ slightly. God inspired it, not dictated His word & the scribe has some freedom in what they write.
At the end of the day the battle that Joshua fought is written down as observed by the writer, from his point of view, with his understanding of the world being used to describe what he saw.

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Well this can go back and forth forever. I will believe the account as given in The Bible that the sun and moon stood still (stopped moving).

If you need to adjust the account to accommodate science and add in, that the sun did not stand still, but that God stopped the earth from rotating, that is your belief and choice.

Sorn said:

Probably all the miracles done in the bible involve the suspension or overriding of natural physical laws

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Just the opposite. Miracles restore everything to God's plan and purpose. He declares the end from the beginning. He does not make stuff up as He goes along. He watches over His word to fulfill what He says He will do. He is not an Indian giver as you suggest that He gives and takes it back again. When we study astro physics we see how exact and precise everything is.

d taylor said:

I will believe the account as given in The Bible that the sun and moon stood still (stopped moving).

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The moon rotates the earth. You can not "stop" the sun because it does not move to stop it. Time does stop at the speed of light. We are told that time itself is an illusion.

d taylor said:

Well this can go back and forth forever. I will believe the account as given in The Bible that the sun and moon stood still (stopped moving).

If you need to adjust the account to accommodate science and add in, that the sun did not stand still, but that God stopped the earth from rotating, that is your belief and choice.

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And if you need to adjust the account to accommodate your belief that the earth is flat and sits under a dome and that its the sun that normally moves, which is contrary to everything 21st century science says then you go right ahead but prepare to have egg on your face when you die & learn the truth. And if you want to assume that the statement 'The sun stood still' actually means 'God stopped the sun' instead of taking it at face value and realizing it just describes what someone on earth would see then you go right ahead

Diamond7 said:

The point is God is subject to the laws He creates. He is a lot more exact and a lot more precise then people can imagine. When He does a work to restore us, it is to return us to His plan and His purpose. People are lawless, not God.

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Where do you get the idea that God is subject to the laws of nature? He is sovereign to them all & created them all and can alter them if He wants to. These laws have nothing to do with morals which is what 'lawless' refers to in 'people are lawless'

Diamond7 said:

Just the opposite. Miracles restore everything to God's plan and purpose.

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They do so by suspending the laws of nature so that God can take the needed corrective action to make things happen the way He wants

Sorn said:

They do so by suspending the laws of nature

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I have seen hundreds, thousands of miracles and never once where the laws of nature suspended. That is what the little TE next to my name means. God works through the natural laws. Just like we are to follow the law and the commandments of God. What sort of an example would that be if God does not keep His own law but He expects us to. That makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

• Einstein’s theory of relativity revolutionized our understanding of time.
• Special relativity tells us that time is relative to the observer’s motion. When you move at high speeds, time appears to slow down for you compared to someone at rest.

My first son it seemed like an eternity to raise him. My second son time flew by so fast I can not believe he has a engineering degree and is working. The younger you are the slower time goes. I can remember watching the clock in school and it was so very slow. As you get older time goes a lot faster. A good friend of mine just died and I remember 28 years ago when she got married and we knew them all of these years.

HTacianas said:

The summer solstice. Solstice literally means "sun stands still". All of the ancients referred to the solstice by different names, but they all meant that the sun stood still. The battle was fought on the day the sun stood still.

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Sun AND moon = Eclipse


Scientists have definitely traced it to October 30 1207 BCE

First recorded eclipse in history.

Hazelelponi said:

First recorded eclipse in history.

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The biblical account of Joshua stopping the sun is a fascinating story. According to Cambridge researchers, this event, which occurred exactly 3,224 years ago on October 30, 1207 BCE, is likely the earliest recorded annular eclipse. In the Book of Joshua, during a battle, Joshua prayed for divine assistance, saying, “Sun, stand still upon Gibeon; and you, Moon, in the valley of Ayalon” (1). However, it’s essential to understand that the sun didn’t physically stop moving; rather, the text may describe an eclipse or a phenomenon where the sun’s light appeared to cease shining (2). The account remains a captivating blend of history, astronomy, and faith.

Diamond7 said:

I have seen hundreds, thousands of miracles and never once where the laws of nature suspended. That is what the little TE next to my name means. God works through the natural laws.

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A miracle is by definition a rare event not explicable by natural laws. Look it up yourself. Why do you think God is limited to working with just the natural laws?? God has no limits, to be clear, He can't make 2 + 2 = 5 as thats a logical inconsistency but He can manipulate matter & energy which is what He would be doing in stopping the earth or the moon from rotating or orbiting etc. or healing a sick person or turning 5 fish into many (spontaneous creation of matter which violates the laws of conservation of energy etc)

Sorn said:

A miracle is by definition a rare event not explicable by natural laws

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Maybe your definition not mine and I Have seen hundreds, even thousands of miracles. I am giving a witness and a testimony to what we see and you are reading a dictionary. Also miracles are not "rare events". Everything is a miracle. All of life is a miracle. At least for me. I would not even be alive and having this conversation if I were not depending on God and His wonder working miracle power in my life. Because even when I am unconscious and in a coma my wife and son are praying for me for God to give us a miracle. Even it was a miracle that I got up out of bed this morning. It is a miracle that I have been able to get some spring yard work done.

Diamond7 said:

Maybe your definition not mine and I Have seen hundreds, even thousands of miracles. I am giving a witness and a testimony to what we see and you are reading a dictionary. Also miracles are not "rare events". Everything is a miracle. All of life is a miracle. At least for me. I would not even be alive and having this conversation if I were not depending on God and His wonder working miracle power in my life. Because even when I am unconscious and in a coma my wife and son are praying for me for God to give us a miracle. Even it was a miracle that I got up out of bed this morning. It is a miracle that I have been able to get some spring yard work done.

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Well its not my definition but the definition as used by the world:

but sure, you go ahead and substitute your own definitions for words because you're special

Sorn said:

but sure, you go ahead and substitute your own definitions for words because you're special

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I am trying to use plain language so you understand. IF your car is broken and your mechanic fixes your car did he violate natural law to fix your car. You seem to think he does. God is not lawless and He does not break His own laws.