Moon light - the word of God vs falsely so called science

AV1611VET · May 15, 2024

sjastro said:
Can someone explain how God had already divided the day into light and darkness on day 1 but the Sun (and Moon), the sources of light were created on day 4?

Easy peasy.

God created the light first, then the source of the light.

sjastro said:
Genesis is far more problematical than whether moonlight is reflected sunlight or not,

Then quit harping about it and show us your problem resolution skills.

You're good at showing charts and graphs and pictures and formula and whatnot.

Let's see you resolve this.

sjastro said:
... it violates cause and effect.

Bingo!

Science can take a hike.

Genesis 1 is a series of one miracle after another, over a six day period, that raised the level of mass/energy in the universe from zero to what it is today.

sjastro · May 16, 2024

sjastro said:
On the subject of day and night, according to Genesis 1:4-5 on day 1 of creation.

On day 4 of creation according to Genesis 1:14-16.

Can someone explain how God had already divided the day into light and darkness on day 1 but the Sun (and Moon), the sources of light were created on day 4?
Genesis is far more problematical than whether moonlight is reflected sunlight or not, it violates cause and effect.

So @d taylor this post was directed towards you.
Explain why Genesis 1 violates cause and effect when it is describing a time line, or how Genesis 1:14-16 is even grammatically consistent with Genesis 1:4-5 when day was separated from night on both events.

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. · May 16, 2024

sjastro said:
On the subject of day and night, according to Genesis 1:4-5 on day 1 of creation.

On day 4 of creation according to Genesis 1:14-16.

Can someone explain how God had already divided the day into light and darkness on day 1 but the Sun (and Moon), the sources of light were created on day 4?
Genesis is far more problematical than whether moonlight is reflected sunlight or not, it violates cause and effect.

[God is light] and in Him is no darkness at all. The light which occurred first was the glory-light of God. On the fourth day God created the sun to shine natural light. The fourth dispensational day of the dispensational week is when Jesus came as the light of the world. The OT text which says that God sits above the earth is metaphoric, using the natural light to refer to the Messianic light.

If the Bible described natural things in a scientific way then it would be restricted in using such text to use metaphors, idioms, parables to refer to spiritual truth.

d taylor · May 17, 2024

sjastro said:
So @d taylor this post was directed towards you.
Explain why Genesis 1 violates cause and effect when it is describing a time line, or how Genesis 1:14-16 is even grammatically consistent with Genesis 1:4-5 when day was separated from night on both events.

There is no problem in Genesis 1 between 4-5 and 14-16

In the beginning Genesis 1;1 God created the heaven(s) and the earth. There was no 6 days of creating, God spoke and it was. This first and original creation was the home of the angelic host and God. Satan fell and God judged this creation and cut out the light. God can do this since He, God is the only source of light.

So starting with Genesis 1:3 God begins to restore the creation created in Genesis 1:1. But this time the creation "the earth' will be home to man. So God simply begins with restoring light. God does not need a sun, moon or stars to have light.

Take a dark room God could light this room with out a single light source in the room. With just a spoke word the dark room could be filled with light.

But eventually God does create two great light and stars for giving light to the earth plus to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

So the light God brought fourth in Genesis 1:3 was not needed now as the sun, moon and stars are created and beginning on day 4 they began their purpose for being created. To light the earth and to keep time, etc...

Only a evolution/globe earth believer would have problem with light and the sun, moon and stars in Genesis.

Like i stated we simply do not agree on God's creation. So your science will have you see what exist from a science view point.

My lack of belief in science, as giving correct information on God's creation. I will see God's creation first from the creator's descriptions and if science does not line up with the descriptions. i simply do not believe what science states.

sjastro · May 17, 2024

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. said:
[God is light] and in Him is no darkness at all. The light which occurred first was the glory-light of God. On the fourth day God created the sun to shine natural light. The fourth dispensational day of the dispensational week is when Jesus came as the light of the world. The OT text which says that God sits above the earth is metaphoric, using the natural light to refer to the Messianic light.

If the Bible described natural things in a scientific way then it would be restricted in using such text to use metaphors, idioms, parables to refer to spiritual truth.

Here is the irony, I have attempted to interpret Genesis 1 literally not metaphorically.
It is the literal interpretation of the Bible which leads to the anti-science rhetoric as found in this thread but also leaves no scope but to read Genesis 1 exactly as it is written.
The separation of day from night occurred either on day 1 or day 4 but not both, a metaphorical description is the way out in which case Genesis is a story which conveys a message and not an actual account.

sjastro · May 17, 2024

d taylor said:
There is no problem in Genesis 1 between 4-5 and 14-16

In the beginning Genesis 1;1 God created the heaven(s) and the earth. There was no 6 days of creating, God spoke and it was. This first and original creation was the home of the angelic host and God. Satan fell and God judged this creation and cut out the light. God can do this since He, God is the only source of light.

So starting with Genesis 1:3 God begins to restore the creation created in Genesis 1:1. But this time the creation "the earth' will be home to man. So God simply begins with restoring light. God does not need a sun, moon or stars to have light.

Take a dark room God could light this room with out a single light source in the room. With just a spoke word the dark room could be filled with light.

But eventually God does create two great light and stars for giving light to the earth plus to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

So the light God brought fourth in Genesis 1:3 was not needed now as the sun, moon and stars are created and beginning on day 4 they began their purpose for being created. To light the earth and to keep time, etc...

Only a evolution/globe earth believer would have problem with light and the sun, moon and stars in Genesis.

Like i stated we simply do not agree on God's creation. So your science will have you see what exist from a science view point.

My lack of belief in science, as giving correct information on God's creation. I will see God's creation first from the creator's descriptions and if science does not line up with the descriptions. i simply do not believe what science states.

Read my previous post and while you are at it explain why in Genesis 1 plants were created on day 3 and humans on day 6 whereas in Genesis 2 the implication is humans were created before plants.

AV1611VET · May 17, 2024

sjastro said:
It is the literal interpretation of the Bible which leads to the anti-science rhetoric ...

Do you know the difference between ANTI-SCIENCE and NO SCIENCE?

Just because I don't put sugar in my coffee, it doesn't mean I hate sugar.

AV1611VET · May 17, 2024

sjastro said:
Read my previous post and while you are at it explain why in Genesis 1 plants were created on day 3 and humans on day 6 whereas in Genesis 2 the implication is humans were created before plants.

Here's why:

Genesis 1 & 2 comprise what is known as a framework story.

A story within a story.

Genesis 1 & 2 in chronological order:

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27a So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 ¶ And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 ¶ And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 ¶ And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

d taylor · May 17, 2024

sjastro said:
On the subject of day and night, according to Genesis 1:4-5 on day 1 of creation.

On day 4 of creation according to Genesis 1:14-16.

Can someone explain how God had already divided the day into light and darkness on day 1 but the Sun (and Moon), the sources of light were created on day 4?
Genesis is far more problematical than whether moonlight is reflected sunlight or not, it violates cause and effect.

I can not explain how God divided light, just like i can not explain how Jesus walked on water.

Not sure if this is the post you were speaking about

sjastro said:
Read my previous post and

The earth God created in Genesis 1:1 became dark, God cut out the light after satan sinned (Ezekiel 28:13-19).
So God in restoring the earth created in Genesis 1:1, God started out with restoring the light. Why would God want to work in darkness until day four.

sjastro said:
while you are at it explain why in Genesis 1 plants were created on day 3 and humans on day 6 whereas in Genesis 2 the implication is humans were created before plants.

Genesis 1 is what this verse Genesis 2:4 is referencing. Not the rest of Genesis 2.
This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

After verses 2:1-7 starting at Genesis 2:8 begins a description of the garden of Eden. Which has nothing to do with the creation account in Genesis 1. This garden could have been made a week, a month, etc.. after God restoration/creation account in Genesis 1

Estrid · May 18, 2024

d taylor said:
I can not explain how God divided light, just like i can not explain how Jesus walked on water.

Not sure if this is the post you were speaking about

The earth God created in Genesis 1:1 became dark, God cut out the light after satan sinned (Ezekiel 28:13-19).
So God in restoring the earth created in Genesis 1:1, God started out with restoring the light. Why would God want to work in darkness until day four.

Genesis 1 is what this verse Genesis 2:4 is referencing. Not the rest of Genesis 2.
This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

After verses 2:1-7 starting at Genesis 2:8 begins a description of the garden of Eden. Which has nothing to do with the creation account in Genesis 1. This garden could have been made a week, a month, etc.. after God restoration/creation account in Genesis 1

How could light and dark make the least difference
to a omnipotent?

You can figure and explain all you like but it's
still just a story, and 100% of all relevant facts
demonstrate its just a story.

And an insult to any creator there may be, to
claim infallible knowledge that the story you
CHOOSE to adopt and interpret as you choose
is Truth eternal.

d taylor · May 18, 2024

Estrid said:
How could light and dark make the least difference
to a omnipotent?

You can figure and explain all you like but it's
still just a story, and 100% of all relevant facts
demonstrate its just a story.

And an insult to any creator there may be, to
claim infallible knowledge that the story you
CHOOSE to adopt and interpret as you choose
is Truth eternal.

-

Dark (ness) is a sign of judgment. When Jesus returns (second coming) there will be no light God has judged satan's attempt to wipe out Israel. The only light that will penetrate this darkness will be the light of Jesus as He returns back to earth.

Your opinion about God , The Bible is known. It is also known, your faith is in science and men and women of science.

Estrid · May 18, 2024

d taylor said:
-

Dark (ness) is a sign of judgment. When Jesus returns (second coming) there will be no light God has judged satan's attempt to wipe out Israel. The only light that will penetrate this darkness will be the light of Jesus as He returns back to earth.

Your opinion about God , The Bible is known. It is also known, your faith is in science and men and women of science.

It's very immature- and dishonest- to just
say things.
You should know that by now.

AV1611VET · May 18, 2024

Estrid said:
It's very immature- and dishonest - to just say things.
You should know that by now.

Thanks for the demonstration.

d taylor · May 18, 2024

Estrid said:
It's very immature- and dishonest- to just
say things.
You should know that by now.

-

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Shemjaza · May 18, 2024

d taylor said:
-

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I'm curious, when you read Revelations and creatures like Beasts and Dragons are described as multi headed monsters with horns are other animal features... are those literal prophecies of monsters, or are they symbolic of human appearing individuals, systems or nations?

d taylor · May 18, 2024

Shemjaza said:
I'm curious, when you read Revelations and creatures like Beasts and Dragons are described as multi headed monsters with horns are other animal features... are those literal prophecies of monsters, or are they symbolic of human appearing individuals, systems or nations?

-

The context tells what they are. The beasts are actual people. there are two, one from the sea (a gentile person) and one from the land (a Jewish person).

The beast from the sea is known also by other names. The king of The North, Paul's Man of Sin and is also the Little Horn of Daniel 7. The beast from the sea is also known as the Antichrist and the False Prophet. The dragon is satan.

For an example in Revelation 17 Rome is the woman.
The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

How is that know, The Bible plainly tells the reader
And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

At the time of the writing of this by John, the only city who reigned over the kings of the earth was Rome.

So Rome will be restored to power by satan during the tribulation.

A very good book about the events in revelation is The Power to Make War, by Zane Hodges

Shemjaza · May 18, 2024

d taylor said:
-

The context tells what they are. The beasts are actual people. there are two, one from the sea (a gentile person) and one from the land (a Jewish person).

The beast from the sea is known also by other names. The king of The North, Paul's Man of Sin and is also the Little Horn of Daniel 7. The beast from the sea is also known as the Antichrist and the False Prophet. The dragon is satan.

For an example in Revelation 17 Rome is the woman.
The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

How is that know, The Bible plainly tells the reader
And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

At the time of the writing of this by John, the only city who reigned over the kings of the earth was Rome.

So Rome will be restored to power by satan during the tribulation.

A very good book about the events in revelation is The Power to Make War, by Zane Hodges

Thank you.

It's interesting to me that other Christian literalists like AV1611 probably more or less agree with you on your poetic interpretations of Revelation, but perceive the descriptions of domes and ferminants as similarly poetic descriptions of the atmosphere and space.

d taylor · May 18, 2024

Shemjaza said:
Thank you.

It's interesting to me that other Christian literalists like AV1611 probably more or less agree with you on your poetic interpretations of Revelation, but perceive the descriptions of domes and ferminants as similarly poetic descriptions of the atmosphere and space.

Well i stand out as one who does not hold to just one teaching from a certain group.

For my belief of what a person must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. I am free grace, which is belief in Jesus gives a person Eternal Life. But 99% of free grace hold to a creation belief similar to answers in Genesis. which i do not.

I completely agree with Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum's teaching on the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit (Matthew 12) and His time space between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 also his teaching on the nephilim in Genesis 6. But i disagree with his teaching that fallen angels are demons. I could go on, but that may give you an idea.

Estrid · May 18, 2024

d taylor said:
-

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Shemjaza said:
Thank you.

It's interesting to me that other Christian literalists like AV1611 probably more or less agree with you on your poetic interpretations of Revelation, but perceive the descriptions of domes and ferminants as similarly poetic descriptions of the atmosphere and space.

And an embarrassment to Faith
if taken literally.

AV1611VET · May 18, 2024

Estrid said:
And an embarrassment to Faith if taken literally.

Speaking of faith ...

Estrid said:
Of course, should the supercomputer, say, discover a code out at the hundred trillionth decibel of Pi, that would shiver my spine and make a Believer!

AV1611VET said:

For the record, Pi has been computed to 105 trillion decimal places.

Click to expand...

... have you converted yet?

Moon light - the word of God vs falsely so called science

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Newbie

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Similar threads