So, my three year old son prayed to the Christmas tree...

abacabb3

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My son loves praying. He can sing the church's hymns, and recite the prayers, he even likes picking up the prayer book and he can read some of the prayers though he mostly likes mumbling a chant to be like mommy and daddy. We have him kiss the icons and identify who is on them. He goes to every liturgy that we can take him too, the Church is very much a part of life.

The other day my wife and I put up the Christmas tree, the first one he'd remember (he did have one when he was first born) and of course its exciting. Every ornament box is like a toy that needs to be unwrapped, the lights, etcetera. We celebrated by watching a bunch of Christmas cartoons about the nativity.

So, I come home from work last night and my son walks in front of the tree and he makes a posture with his hands like he is praying (two hands touching like this):
delete.jpg

I felt this was strange because I don't remember any cartoon where they pray like this nor do we pray like this at home (we do the sign of the cross, may rise out hands to the air outstretched). I asked him what he was doing. He said, "I'm praying." I said, "To what?" He replied, "To the Christmas tree."

This really bothered me. I suppose I understand that due to sin, man is always liable to pray to idols, the moon--you know, big shiny things. I suppose a Christmas tree is just like that. However, I felt hurt that God would have not given the grace to protect him from such a temptation after all the communing, praying, and kissing of icons. Theologically speaking, we don't do anything bad on our own but rather we act upon demonic suggestions (this is Saint Maximus). Something had to suggest to my son that the Christmas tree was worthy of worship.

I told him, "No, not the tree, you pray to the icons."

Maybe not a perfect answer I suppose. But it shows a 3 year old certainly has eternity in their hearts and we must be vigilant to direct things the right way or they can go wayward. Comments, advice, similar stories?
 

YahuahSaves

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OK you are from a catholic faith?
I saw the heading and I thought it was going to be something cute. (It is cute by the way), a 3 year olds mind can't comprehend religion, but they will try to pick up what they're taught about God from their parents.

It's funny, I assumed this would be a post about praying to the Christmas tree because it has the word Christ in it, like he thought he was praying to God? But since your faith teaches him to pray to "icons", then I suspect this is all he is doing (he just thinks the Christmas tree is another icon.)?

As for the prayer position, my Nan who converted from the catholic faith to Christianity and she use to pray like this over her bed (kneeling on the floor), it's considered a traditional prayer position from my understanding and is about humility. All this aside, God hears our prayers no matter where we are or what our posture is - if faith is genuine he knows by our hearts, it's our heart posture that counts the most. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Lukaris

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Maybe watch the Charlie Brown Christmas with him. While the Peanuts kids really want to get a great tree, it is Linus who tells Charlie Brown the true meaning of Christmas.
 
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ArmyMatt

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OK you are from a catholic faith?
I saw the heading and I thought it was going to be something cute. (It is cute by the way), a 3 year olds mind can't comprehend religion, but they will try to pick up what they're taught about God from their parents.

It's funny, I assumed this would be a post about praying to the Christmas tree because it has the word Christ in it, like he thought he was praying to God? But since your faith teaches him to pray to "icons", then I suspect this is all he is doing (he just thinks the Christmas tree is another icon.)?

As for the prayer position, my Nan who converted from the catholic faith to Christianity and she use to pray like this over her bed (kneeling on the floor), it's considered a traditional prayer position from my understanding and is about humility. All this aside, God hears our prayers no matter where we are or what our posture is - if faith is genuine he knows by our hearts, it's our heart posture that counts the most. :oldthumbsup:
please realize you are in the Orthodox subforum here, and check out our rules.
 
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ArmyMatt

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My son loves praying. He can sing the church's hymns, and recite the prayers, he even likes picking up the prayer book and he can read some of the prayers though he mostly likes mumbling a chant to be like mommy and daddy. We have him kiss the icons and identify who is on them. He goes to every liturgy that we can take him too, the Church is very much a part of life.

The other day my wife and I put up the Christmas tree, the first one he'd remember (he did have one when he was first born) and of course its exciting. Every ornament box is like a toy that needs to be unwrapped, the lights, etcetera. We celebrated by watching a bunch of Christmas cartoons about the nativity.

So, I come home from work last night and my son walks in front of the tree and he makes a posture with his hands like he is praying (two hands touching like this):
View attachment 324102
I felt this was strange because I don't remember any cartoon where they pray like this nor do we pray like this at home (we do the sign of the cross, may rise out hands to the air outstretched). I asked him what he was doing. He said, "I'm praying." I said, "To what?" He replied, "To the Christmas tree."

This really bothered me. I suppose I understand that due to sin, man is always liable to pray to idols, the moon--you know, big shiny things. I suppose a Christmas tree is just like that. However, I felt hurt that God would have not given the grace to protect him from such a temptation after all the communing, praying, and kissing of icons. Theologically speaking, we don't do anything bad on our own but rather we act upon demonic suggestions (this is Saint Maximus). Something had to suggest to my son that the Christmas tree was worthy of worship.

I told him, "No, not the tree, you pray to the icons."

Maybe not a perfect answer I suppose. But it shows a 3 year old certainly has eternity in their hearts and we must be vigilant to direct things the right way or they can go wayward. Comments, advice, similar stories?

just be gentle but firm. it seems it was his innocence in this example.
 
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Ioustinos

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Can you see the irony in what you told him?
No because we aren't praying to the wood the icon is painted on.

Just like we don't kiss a ream of gloss paper and a picture of our dead relative in the same way. One would be weird; the other everyone would understand the act goes to the person depicted on the gloss paper not to the paper itself. The veneration given to an icon goes to the saint that is depicted not the wood it is made from.
 
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Chesterton

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Theologically speaking, we don't do anything bad on our own but rather we act upon demonic suggestions (this is Saint Maximus).
On a side note, could you tell me where I can find St. Maximus (or anyone else) mentioning this? It's something I've wondered about.
 
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YahuahSaves

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please realize you are in the Orthodox subforum here, and check out our rules.
Apologies I only saw the post title.

Can you enlighten me on what the faith is all about? It sounds like Catholicism with the mention of icons and such...
 
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Lukaris

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Re icons. There can be many examples and explanations. One might be that they are a visual representation of our living faith and worship on earth and in heaven ( an aspect of the Lord’s Prayer might be applicable here). The icon or image begins with the Lord Jesus Christ who is God and the image or icon of God ( John 1:1-5, Colossians 1:15-18 etc.). People in the icons are those who worship the true God and lived by faith. A visual representation of the heavenly cloud of witnesses as testified to in Hebrews 11:1-39, and Hebrews 12:1-2).

In the dome of our parish church we have Christ at the center and a heavenly cloud of witnesses represented in the 12 Old Testament prophets and the 12 Apostles.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Apologies I only saw the post title.

Can you enlighten me on what the faith is all about? It sounds like Catholicism with the mention of icons and such...

no worries. we’re Orthodox so we externally look like Rome, but our approach to Christ is very different.
 
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abacabb3

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On a side note, could you tell me where I can find St. Maximus (or anyone else) mentioning this? It's something I've wondered about.
Here's a video with a RC theologian being interviewed on it, it gets into considerable detail how St Maximus fleshed it out:
 
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I once gave a gift of an icon to someone who was not Orthodox, and her daughter was found praying in front of the icon asking Jesus for a pony. Seems like the inverse of your situation that points to a truth: children have vague ideas about things and need help and time to develop them properly. A Christmas tree points to Christmas, to the Nativity of our Lord. While we shouldn't pray to the Christmas tree, it seems that he recognizes that the Christmas tree is about Christ, that we should pray to Christ in the presence of things that remind us of Him. He's not as far off as he seems, but a course correction is in order. The Israelites had all sorts of visible reminders of God's saving work that were occasions for prayer and remembrance of their salvation. It would not be wrong to pray in front of a Christmas tree, but there is no reason to pray to it because it is only a reminder of Christ's birth not a representation of it.
 
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Apologies I only saw the post title.

Can you enlighten me on what the faith is all about? It sounds like Catholicism with the mention of icons and such...

As ArmyMatt said, we outwardly look similar to Catholicism (both Orthodoxy and Catholicism being Apostolic forms of Christianity), but the experience of the Church and of Christ is very different.

Iconography is a form of liturgical art to express Christian Truths in a visual format dating back to the Early Church. Color, line, shape, form, pattern, symbol, and atypical perspective are used to express theological truths and to portray scenes of the Bible, scenes in salvation history, and the lives of the Saints. Icons are considered a licit form of religious art because of both the Ark of the Covenant and the Incarnation; iconoclasm is seen as denying the Incarnation, particularly when icons of Christ are spoken against.
 
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Here's a video with a RC theologian being interviewed on it, it gets into considerable detail how St Maximus fleshed it out:
Thank you! Very informative discussion. The RC guy strikes me as a bit odd though. He's always laughing after he says very serious things which are in no way funny. Maybe it's nervous laughter? Maybe he's anxious because he's very near the truth but still in the wrong church? ;) I don't know, I'm no psychoanalyst. I used to be, but the AMA took away my license after I publicly recognized that Trump Derangement Syndrome was a real thing.
 
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